NOVAK ADAPTER FRUSTRATION-Please help!

[Old Dog]

I have to agree with others here, ie. if novak could make an adapter that didn't require cutting the shaft they would.
Sometimes what seems like a good and easy idea to us just doesn't work in the real world. (been there done that)
I say cut the shaft and get the jeep on the road.

 

[tarry99]

Great. Perhaps you can enlighten me on this idea that I will be able to get a thicker adapter? Do you think Novak is capable of doing such a request if they are, do you believe they are mechanically able?

76....... I really don't know what that would entail making an additional adapter for what you have, and how that would or may effect any other aspects or components of that tranny switch. Yes Novak is more than capable as is anyone else with a mill , lathe , proper training and a couple of micrometers.

As already mentioned I feel that these adapters are pretty well thought out for the majority of the rigs or market place they sell to......so asking them to produce or have in stock a longer version for just a few people just does not happen when most other folks are looking to shorten there drive train......and Yes 1 inch does matter so really it's just marketing!........If it is just a cut and dried simple spacer and easy to build then just about anyone could build one, I just have not ever looked at my rear tail-shaft and thought about it.

My adapter kit for a 700R4 to an Atlas came with a new shorter shaft.

I would cut it or get it cut or buy one from Novak that's already cut and have someone install it, chances are if your tranny is used with no history it's got to come apart anyway.....Another thing about the 700R4 and using those off road or on road for that matter....or in a lower gear like low range......the right torque converter and valve body along with the proper shifter has to be utilized or at least matched for your style of driving........a tranny cooler is also a must.

Great tranny , one of the best low gears on the market at 3.06 , 4-speed with a 30% OD makes it a great combo , for low gears in the Transfer Case and axles..like 4.88 or even 5.13's , which allows for the use of bigger tires and yet be able to cruise on the highway at 70 mph if you want to in OD.....

I also have one.

 

[76cj7chick]

:

I have to agree with others here, ie. if novak could make an adapter that didn't require cutting the shaft they would.
Sometimes what seems like a good and easy idea to us just doesn't work in the real world. (been there done that)
I say cut the shaft and get the jeep on the road.

 

[76cj7chick]

76....... I really don't know what that would entail making an additional adapter for what you have, and how that would or may effect any other aspects or components of that tranny switch. Yes Novak is more than capable as is anyone else with a mill , lathe , proper training and a couple of micrometers.

As already mentioned I feel that these adapters are pretty well thought out for the majority of the rigs or market place they sell to......so asking them to produce or have in stock a longer version for just a few people just does not happen when most other folks are looking to shorten there drive train......and Yes 1 inch does matter so really it's just marketing!........If it is just a cut and dried simple spacer and easy to build then just about anyone could build one, I just have not ever looked at my rear tail-shaft and thought about it.

My adapter kit for a 700R4 to an Atlas came with a new shorter shaft.

I would cut it or get it cut or buy one from Novak that's already cut and have someone install it, chances are if your tranny is used with no history it's got to come apart anyway.....Another thing about the 700R4 and using those off road or on road for that matter....or in a lower gear like low range......the right torque converter and valve body along with the proper shifter has to be utilized or at least matched for your style of driving........a tranny cooler is also a must.

Great tranny , one of the best low gears on the market at 3.06 , 4-speed with a 30% OD makes it a great combo , for low gears in the Transfer Case and axles..like 4.88 or even 5.13's , which allows for the use of bigger tires and yet be able to cruise on the highway at 70 mph if you want to in OD.....

I also have one.

Hey Tarry99,
Ideally it would be cool to have just the correctly adapter with the shaft and everything built inside. However, I know that does not look like a possibility right now, therefore I am just hoping to get the sub spacer adapter which is just a piece of aluminum cut longer. I will give Novak a call Monday to see if they are successful in machining one.
Thanks for your words of advice. I will keep them in mind when I speak to Novak. For better or worse.
P. S. My pink Cj has 3.54 rear gear axle ratio.:

 

[76cj7chick]

I do wish Novak had a picture of the adapter, spacer and everything mounted to a 700r4 and Dana 20 Transfer Case . That way no surprises. Just my two cents.

 

[76cj7chick]

This morning I emailed "E" at Novak again for an update on whether or not they are able to cut a longer sub adapter spacer. Waited about a-half-hour. Then gave them a call. Spoke to "J" who reported "E" was in the shop and couldn't talk but asured me that he was with the machinist and they were cutting a thicker sub-adapter. I let "J" know that if cutting a thicker sub-adapter would be too difficult or cause an imbalance or torque issues then I would find someone to cut the shaft. "J" assured me that it was getting accomplished. He further stated he'd send me an email update.
I thanked him and apologized for causing issues. Again, he assured me I was no trouble. (nice guy) And that everything was being handled.

 

[Hedgehog]

All I can say is WOW! Amazing.

 

[Torxhead]

76, I would think you could shorten it on you own. You could even get a practice piece if you felt it would help. If you did it with an air grinder, it would probably take a lot of compressed air and with an electric one you would just have to go easy on it. I tend to think that a custom built spacer would really run into some big dough, just my $.02. Looking forward to when you run that thing thru the gears.

 

[Hedgehog]

Just wondering. How much is this adaptor to an adaptor going to cost? I'm sure others inn your situation and mindset would like to know.

 

[76cj7chick]

Hmmm. It shouldn't cost any additional money as tge original kit already has the spacer but it's just too short. (That is where the tranny shaft will require cutting). Therefore, I believe they're going to make it possible to have this "special extension" (As a replacement for the thinner one that they already supply in the kit) adapter spacer. Or one can opt for just their regular space plate where you have to cut the spline shaft. Also, No one at Novak has indicated anything about costing more. And again, I don't see why one would be charged more for a slightly thicker (1 1/4" maximum difference piece of aluminum plate.) And I emailed Novak and said that I would report back to them on the adapter install upon receiving it. This way and may be able to do a full production.
Furthermore, if I had to cut anything with this modification I would rather cut the spacer plate that they supply in the kit. It would be better to get a thicker spacer that would require cutting than to get a smaller one and have to modify your shaft. (IMHO) But I know there are a lot of veteran jeepers that are used to cutting shafts but it just seems unnecessary especially since I'm swapping out the straight six with a short v6. So I have more room to work with. So the thicker sub-adapter won't be an issue with my swap. However, jeepers who decide to keep the longer in- lines may have to modifying there tranny-shaft.

I told Novak they can have the shorter spacer plate back if they'd like. And that I would need longer bolt studs since the spacer will be thicker.. Hope I'm not pushing my luck on that one.

Again, we are not talking the adapter being modified in any way here. But rather just a thick piece of alluminum cut as a spacer between the tranny and Transfer Case that is already supplied in their kit.
Ideally it would be best to get rid of the spacer and just extend the adapter to fit the shaft housing perfectly. ( Like they have already have done on the Transfer Case side. Which their shaft adapter fits perfectly on the Transfer Case side and is beautiful, simple and bolts right to the Transfer Case .) However, at this point I will be very happy with just a thicker sub-spacer.

 

[Torxhead]

Interesting, it does sound like you will be tight in the driveshaft length. Like maybe have to go with a double cardan type u-joint and tilting up the pinion angle to match the drop. Which also means a custom shortened driveshaft. That engine and tranny combo is pretty ideal though.

 

[76cj7chick]

To everyone who has been following this thread I wanted to let you know that "E" from Novak sent me an email update stating that they are getting the "special extension" adapter spacer for kit 107 machined. And that it will take another five days to accomplish the project and to hang tight.

I wanted to say that if Novak is able to fulfill this request in the proposed time and send it to me as originally believed at no additional cost to me and to offer the longer spacer as an option in their 107 kits to other customers that it will open up doors for them as it may increase their customer base. ( For I know in my own experience that after I found out that I would need to cut my tranny shaft I thought about returning the entire kit.)

And, if they do offer the non-cutting (the tranny shaft) spacer for their customers they may be actually the first company (that I know of) that doesn't require cutting the shaft.
Which seems like a win-win situation all around.

 

[76cj7chick]

Interesting, it does sound like you will be tight in the driveshaft length. Like maybe have to go with a double cardan type u-joint and tilting up the pinion angle to match the drop. Which also means a custom shortened driveshaft. That engine and tranny combo is pretty ideal though.

Hmm. Perhaps. I'm not sure if I will have to customize the drive shaft length but I would rather do that than cut my tranny shaft. But if I do, thats ok and more doable. However, I don't know if I will, because the previous owner of my CJ7 already installed the I6 AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l engine with a AMC GM Turbo 400 auto tranny. And so, the engine combo was already was forward pretty far. (my 76 was stock with a manual tranny. YES! I am very excited to hear from Novak that I will get the "special extended" version of the adapter spacer and adapter... CAN'T wait to get in my greasy hands and install and finally get the little Jeep back on the road.

I wanted to say how impressed I am so far with Novak and how they are handling my adapter concern and hope to be able to continue to receive professional and courtesy customer service. I that I will get a thicker spacer.
So stay tuned til I get another update on the progress.

 

[76cj7chick]

While waiting to get the adapter spacer, I've remounted the tcase cross-member and loosely connected the driveshafts. After making this temporay "mock up" of where things will sit, it appears I may still have enough room to extend the rear driveshaft. Which is great as it was too short with the I6 and AMC GM Turbo 400 tranny. I may also need to bring the cross member forward. Unless I want to push back the engine/tranny and Transfer Case assembly. --But that would require to drill new motor mounts closer to the firewall. :0

Could someone chime in and let me know what would be the best route?

 

[tarry99]

While waiting to get the adapter spacer, I've remounted the tcase cross-member and loosely connected the driveshafts. After making this temporay "mock up" of where things will sit, it appears I may still have enough room to extend the rear driveshaft. Which is great as it was too short with the I6 and AMC GM Turbo 400 tranny. I may also need to bring the cross member forward. Unless I want to push back the engine/tranny and Transfer Case assembly. --But that would require to drill new motor mounts closer to the firewall. :0

Could someone chime in and let me know what would be the best route?

76 Hard to see from here...........but really no best way, engine replacements are a moving target and always a compromise of sorts, you just have to continue to move things around until the majority fits....Radiator , steering, motor clearance at firewall & pan & exhaust. If you can get one drive shaft to fit without replacing , either front or back then go from there.......although I'm not against changing the length on both if that's where it needs to be. It's all about clearance around everything and proper drive line angles........... think it out , look at all the options, you don't want to do it twice!

 

[76cj7chick]

76 Hard to see from here...........but really no best way, engine replacements are a moving target and always a compromise of sorts, you just have to continue to move things around until the majority fits....Radiator , steering, motor yclearance at firewall & pan & exhaust. If you can get one drive shaft to fit without replacing , either front or back then go from there.......although I'm not against changing the length on both if that's where it needs to be. It's all about clearance around everything and proper drive line angles........... think it out , look at all the options, you don't want to do it twice!

Yeah unfortunately I can't find pictures and specs of how other swappers engine and tranny combo fits.
Would Gould know how high or low the engine and tranny should sit? I heard to make everything as straight as possible. However even with the other engine and tranny that the pro installed in my cj, the rear driveshaft was angled a bit and kind of stumpy compared to the front driveshaft where it was pretty straight and long.
So perhaps right now I just need to know where the. engine should sit on the frame?
Should the bottom of the oil pan be Level or higher than the front diff?
Thanks for your help.

 

[76cj7chick]

This morning I emailed "E" with Novak to get a update on how the thicker sub-adapter spacer is coming along.... Its almost 4pm and I haven't received a response....I'm sure they're busy but hopefully he'll let me know how it's coming along or if it's beenshipped yet. As I Really want to drive again....:madjeep::grinjeep::yj:

 

[tarry99]

Yeah unfortunately I can't find pictures and specs of how other swappers engine and tranny combo fits.
Would Gould know how high or low the engine and tranny should sit? I heard to make everything as straight as possible. However even with the other engine and tranny that the pro installed in my cj, the rear driveshaft was angled a bit and kind of stumpy compared to the front driveshaft where it was pretty straight and long.
So perhaps right now I just need to know where the. engine should sit on the frame?
Should the bottom of the oil pan be Level or higher than the front diff?
Thanks for your help.

Again that is all a moving target and should only be adjusted once you have the complete engine , Transmission and Transfer Case all assembled and together hanging in there between the frame rails......adjusting for an oil pan is not the proper way it should be done although that clearance between it and a tie Rod or any other solid object should also be considered...........

Firewall clearance, hood to air cleaner , fore and aft depending on radiator and Transmission clearance between the firewall, floor and body is where it needs to go................most engines when properly mounted will have about a 3-5 degree slope going down from front to rear.....On a Auto Transmission like yours the tranny pan bottom flat surface should be level to the ground in a running normal ride height position........... In doing so that will automatically put your motor in the correct running angle..........then mounts have to be built or adjusted to capture those positions. Exhaust routing up front also needs to be watched especially when building a rear mount.

Mounting different motors in different chassis is always a compromise.........giving some room here while taking it away in another location.........you just have to get it together and slip it in there and see where it needs to go and what it wants.

 

[76cj7chick]

Again that is all a moving target and should only be adjusted once you have the complete engine , Transmission and Transfer Case all assembled and together hanging in there between the frame rails......adjusting for an oil pan is not the proper way it should be done although that clearance between it and a tie Rod or any other solid object should also be considered...........

Firewall clearance, hood to air cleaner , fore and aft depending on radiator and Transmission clearance between the firewall, floor and body is where it needs to go................most engines when properly mounted will have about a 3-5 degree slope going down from front to rear.....On a Auto Transmission like yours the tranny pan bottom flat surface should be level to the ground in a running normal ride height position........... In doing so that will automatically put your motor in the correct running angle..........then mounts have to be built or adjusted to capture those positions. Exhaust routing up front also needs to be watched especially when building a rear mount.

Mounting different motors in different chassis is always a compromise.........giving some room here while taking it away in another location.........you just have to get it together and slip it in there and see where it needs to go and what it wants.

That is a lot to take in. Let me chew on it.
Just wish I had the thicker sub- adapter so that way I could measure with it too and try to get everything placed as one.

Good to know about keeping my Transmission pan level. And that the engine will have a natural 3-5 degrees slope.

 

[76cj7chick]

Haven't heard from Novak yet still.
I may give them till tomorrow and then call "E" again.