Build Thread Operation Sky Blue Water Trip Build

[007]

Shake down runs went fine. Did Yankee Boy instead. Went well.

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[IOPort51]

now, lower California and back on cork screw. that is some solid rock time to get everything settled. Don't do it alone.


I think this is the most fun trail in the San Juan's. but that's just me.

 

[007]

So I learned several things about my CJ on the 4th Annual trip. Some of these things confirmed earlier beliefs, others contradicted them while other remained cloudy.

I learned that my tires are a w e s o m e. I have 31" Firestone Destination MT's and I love them. Obviously we all have our preferences on tires and oil and those preferences differ - but they're all valid so long as they're based on real-life experiences without mitigating circumstances that detract from the facts.

I learned that my CJ has some squeaks and rattles that drive me NUTS, and those will be addressed one way or another. One was my Transmission lines, but we will get into that later. The other major one was my OEM spare tire carrier. I need to pad around where it latches.

I learned that while I replaced my master cylinder and booster, my brakes were merely serviceable. I suspected this before I left but it was time to go. I'm replacing EVERYTHING between the master cylinder and the discs/drums. I have my new proportioning valve already, ordering the kit to allow me to use Chevy calipers up front and replacing ALL brake lines. They will work like new because they will be. DONE with brake issues.

I did not learn if my 2.72 gears that I installed in 2013 are the best answer for my type of off-roading. The issues I experienced were on the highway, not on the trail though - that may surprise some of you. In full-time FWD on my QuadraTrac and in 1st gear in my GM Turbo 400 I could go anywhere and everywhere I needed. My AMC 304 ran around 1200-1400 RPM and tractored up whatever it faced. This is NOT a rock or quarry climber, so I'm happy. Where I faced issues was climbing mountains on the highway. I just flat out didn't have enough , and needed to stay in 2nd to keep any speed at all. This could be a few things that I'll have to sort through (carb settings, ignition, gears). It's easy to say that it was the 2.72 gears, but the math does not support that argument. A poorly tuned engine will obviously benefit from a gear change because it need not work as hard. The question is, how poorly tuned was my engine? I'll find out... Even though it was running rich as it was setup for lower/normal altitude - it still got HOT working up from 7,700' to nearly 13,000' on the highway. Thin air, regardless of mixture requires spark a little earlier to burn what it has more completely. I had it completely floored for miles on end and it got way too hot. On trails where there was no preceding highway, it never got hot at all.

I learned that I need to replace my Transmission lines, and I'll add a separate Transmission cooler. On my last day we came back in town and headed to the gas station, while I was filling up I saw a nice stream of Transmission fluid shooting out one of the lines. Going to replace with a flexible line of some sort as it will take some flex better than rigid steel (or rusty rigid steel in my case); which in turn will solve that rattle...

I learned I need to drop my fuel tank and figure out where my leak comes from when it's full. It's a brand new tank, but somehow something has either come loose or been punctured. Naturally it's full (or was) so I'll have to siphon that out and drop it this winter.

I learned that I'm going to go to an OME YJ spring conversion with a 2.5" lift. I want the slightly smoother ride and flex of the YJ springs and the lift will make the CJ look a bit better in every situation.

I learned (was reminded) that folks just love CJ's. I had compliments at gas stations along the way, I had this girl taking pictures of it out her window while we were blowing across western Kansas or eastern Colorado on I-70, I had a guy the very first morning stop in the middle of a right turn and say "Hey nice CJ!". This all reminds me of what we all have in these CJ's and kicks the TJ Rubicon thoughts back out of my head

More to follow...

 

[PaRenegade]

I can comment on the 2.73 gears with some experience. Mine came from the factory with them (my naive oversight) but they wheeled well in socal, even with 32" tires (11x15 TruTracs). On the highway they did well because socal is pretty flat. But on the way home to Pa and pulling a small 4x6 covered trailer they pretty well sucked when it came to hills, especially on I70 going over the mountains of Colorado. Scream 2nd just to get into 3rd for a short time, then back to 2nd. The elevation I'm sure had some effect too at 10k feet. I was on 29's, no trailer, and the flatter I40 on the ride out to cali. I've found that a good mix for on and some off road was in my wife's Jeep with 3.54's and 33" tires. I've since put 3.73's in mine with 33's.
Now in both cases it was either the T-4 or T-5 tranny, which have the same 1-4 gears.

 

[007]

Good to know PA - thank you...

I'm seriously considering 3.54's. I'd say it's more likely than not...

 

[Posi]

My AMC 304 ran around 1200-1400 RPM and tractored up whatever it faced.

This was true, and carrying around 700lbs of humans. But here's the thing that concerns me, we were running zero vacuum. If you lower your gearing you'll run higher PSI and lower RPMS. I believe your carb was in the ball park for the altitude but have no idea how correct your timing was/is, which would cause those same issues.

Correct your timing first if need be, then keep or change your gearing to suit your needs.

 

[mriplaybass]

Yes, I think a combination of timing, carb tuning, and gears all working together will be the ticket. I know I learned alot on the trip. I was going to change our CJ from the 3.73's to 4.11 or 4.56, but I think I will wait. We won't have the power with the 231 that your AMC 304 has, so 3.73's may do just fine. Addition of a Transmission cooler is a great idea too.

 

[Petescj]

So I learned several things about my CJ on the 4th Annual trip. Some of these things confirmed earlier beliefs, others contradicted them while other remained cloudy.

I learned that my tires are a w e s o m e. I have 31" Firestone Destination MT's and I love them. Obviously we all have our preferences on tires and oil and those preferences differ - but they're all valid so long as they're based on real-life experiences without mitigating circumstances that detract from the facts.

I learned that my CJ has some squeaks and rattles that drive me NUTS, and those will be addressed one way or another. One was my Transmission lines, but we will get into that later. The other major one was my OEM spare tire carrier. I need to pad around where it latches.

I learned that while I replaced my master cylinder and booster, my brakes were merely serviceable. I suspected this before I left but it was time to go. I'm replacing EVERYTHING between the master cylinder and the discs/drums. I have my new proportioning valve already, ordering the kit to allow me to use Chevy calipers up front and replacing ALL brake lines. They will work like new because they will be. DONE with brake issues.

I did not learn if my 2.72 gears that I installed in 2013 are the best answer for my type of off-roading. The issues I experienced were on the highway, not on the trail though - that may surprise some of you. In full-time FWD on my QuadraTrac and in 1st gear in my GM Turbo 400 I could go anywhere and everywhere I needed. My AMC 304 ran around 1200-1400 RPM and tractored up whatever it faced. This is NOT a rock or quarry climber, so I'm happy. Where I faced issues was climbing mountains on the highway. I just flat out didn't have enough , and needed to stay in 2nd to keep any speed at all. This could be a few things that I'll have to sort through (carb settings, ignition, gears). It's easy to say that it was the 2.72 gears, but the math does not support that argument. A poorly tuned engine will obviously benefit from a gear change because it need not work as hard. The question is, how poorly tuned was my engine? I'll find out... Even though it was running rich as it was setup for lower/normal altitude - it still got HOT working up from 7,700' to nearly 13,000' on the highway. Thin air, regardless of mixture requires spark a little earlier to burn what it has more completely. I had it completely floored for miles on end and it got way too hot. On trails where there was no preceding highway, it never got hot at all.

I learned that I need to replace my Transmission lines, and I'll add a separate Transmission cooler. On my last day we came back in town and headed to the gas station, while I was filling up I saw a nice stream of Transmission fluid shooting out one of the lines. Going to replace with a flexible line of some sort as it will take some flex better than rigid steel (or rusty rigid steel in my case); which in turn will solve that rattle...

I learned I need to drop my fuel tank and figure out where my leak comes from when it's full. It's a brand new tank, but somehow something has either come loose or been punctured. Naturally it's full (or was) so I'll have to siphon that out and drop it this winter.

I learned that I'm going to go to an OME YJ spring conversion with a 2.5" lift. I want the slightly smoother ride and flex of the YJ springs and the lift will make the CJ look a bit better in every situation.

I learned (was reminded) that folks just love CJ's. I had compliments at gas stations along the way, I had this girl taking pictures of it out her window while we were blowing across western Kansas or eastern Colorado on I-70, I had a guy the very first morning stop in the middle of a right turn and say "Hey nice CJ!". This all reminds me of what we all have in these CJ's and kicks the TJ Rubicon thoughts back out of my head

More to follow...

We have a few things in common between your '79 and my '81. Im sorry to hear about your brakes but thank you for saving me an afternoons work. I was going to swap a stock power brake booster in but I dont think it will help much especially since mines on 35s.

I dont think you'll find a stock tire carrier that doesnt make noise after 30+ years of use. Your only running 31 in tires but Id make sure to reinforce the areas where it mounts to the tub. Bigger plates on the inside of the tub will help so it doesnt pull through the sheetmetal.

When I swap in my new to me TF999 I will definately add a Transmission cooler. Im getting used to the automatic now and will probably go with one in my Scrambler as well.

I know you love your tires and will probably wear them out but what happens when you put the new lift on? Will you stay 31 in tires? A 1 inch body lift after that would fit 33s. Then Id go 3.73 for gears...

Anyhow Im still watching and enjoying this thread.

 

[gert]

lovin it dont know if you want to try this but swapping to the junkyard tbi will help with the altitude changes

 

[IOPort51]

for what it is worth the altitude made my AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l a bit sluggish climbing out of Ouray even with the 3.54 axles I spent a lot of time in 2nd gear. The TBI may be the best answer if this is something that concerns you but I can't say I have had that much of a problem anywhere between sea level and 12000', Rich does not worry me near as much as lean.

The leak in the tank when full. check the gasket that seals (hopefully) the sending unit/pickup at the top of the tank. especially with an after market tank. Is it a poly tank? This was what caused me to do the access plate in the rear deck so I would not have to drop the tank, again.

 

[007]

This was true, and carrying around 700lbs of humans. But here's the thing that concerns me, we were running zero vacuum. If you lower your gearing you'll run higher PSI and lower RPMS. I believe your carb was in the ball park for the altitude but have no idea how correct your timing was/is, which would cause those same issues.

Correct your timing first if need be, then keep or change your gearing to suit your needs.

Hey Posi - good to hear from you... The only time we were running zero vacuum was on the highway with it literally floored. On the trails we ranged from a low of 5 to a high of 10 when under load and not idling. I need to come up with a way to set-reset ignition and carb to adjust for the altitude. Gears are a 65% likelihood as I can live on the highway with 3.54s in most conditions.

 

[007]

I think I will keep the 31's I think with the 2-2-1/2 lift. My rear has no weight and the HD OEM springs so it sits a bit high now, and I have 1" shackle lift in front so the new springs with stock shackle height should give me just 1 to 1 1/2" lift over what's pictured there in the Yankee Boy picture. I'll be fine with that.

As to the TBI, not seen a cost-effective TBI for the AMC 304 . These Jeep ran just fine out there in the 70's and 80's, so there's got to be a way to figure out how to do it right today isn't there?

 

[gert]

As to the TBI, not seen a cost-effective TBI for the AMC 304 . These Jeep ran just fine out there in the 70's and 80's, so there's got to be a way to figure out how to do it right today isn't there?

for the TBI check out link, you should be able to convert for pretty cheap, pull everything from a 305 V8, when I get home thats my plan
BustedJeep.Com - In The Garage

You are right about the right running, you might just need to bring some tools and spare carb jets and do a quick retune when you get to altitude to have it running good

 

[007]

So I can follow that thread and just is a tbi off a 305 sb Chevy?


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[Posi]

You'll need a different TB rebuild kit part # then what is shown in the link above. I grabbed everything from a 350 suburban, grab as much of the wiring as you can. The rebuild kit part # I used is GP-Sorensen #96-541D for around $30. I find carbs easy to rebuild, the TB was easier.



The first thing I did was test the resistance on the TPS to see if it was functioning properly. Most times the TPS is tested using a volt meter but it does have a variable resistor so an ohmmeter will do.

I connected the probes to the sensor’s supply and signal wire contacts. I opened and closed the throttle plate and the resistance gradually increased and decreased as it should. If there is an erratic resistance change, no change, or no resistance at all, the TPS is bad and needs to be replaced.











You'll need an TBI adapter plate



Side note: I removed the injectors by slightly twisting and pulling up using pliers. The o-rings for the injectors need a bit of oil so they don’t twist while installing the injectors into the housing. I also used blue thread lock on 8 body bolts and torqued to 35 in/lbs.

The injector on the left has a new filter installed, the one on the right has the old filter next to it.





Hope this helps

 

[gert]

So I can follow that thread and just is a tbi off a 305 sb Chevy?


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Having a V8 you need the V8 computer, you are 1 cubic inch off from the chevy 305 thats why I suggested it. The fuel injectors and computer will match the demands of the AMC 304 pretty close. I do not think having a 350 throttle body will hurt at all. The computer will adjust the fuel spray amount according to what the O2 sensor reads. But yes follow the post and you will have a fuel injection system in no time flat. I have installed the Howell system before, and it was very straight forward process. You should be able to complete it in less than 2 days the biggest difference will be the junkyard system controls your timing and fuel which is very nice just a bit more work involved. I plan to mount the 8 pin ignition module to the bottom of my HEI dist instead of the fender, just my preference. Also here is a very in-depth form for the install on IH he shows how to modify the prestolite (I think) distributer for the 8 pin as well

"START HERE"--Fuel Injection FAQ--"START HERE" - Binder Planet Forums
GM Wiring Harness (octopus) - Binder Planet Forums
Injection Forum Donation: GM/IH EFI Wiring Diagram - Binder Planet Forums
http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48769

 

[IOPort51]

get the brakes to work the way you need/want them to. then think TBI. Focus!!

Oh look, shiny!

 

[007]

Ha! No worries IO, no fuel system will impede my brake work - believe me... DONE with what I have with regard to brakes. DONE.

I will give the TBI some serious consideration. Seems somewhere on here I read a thread where a guy was doing a fuel injection setup from the junkyard and it cost him a bundle and never worked the last I read it... I'd guess he was doing some other type of EFI and not this.

It's kind of a scary proposition since I'm pretty weak on automotive electronics, but with enough time and this board I should be okay...

 

[IOPort51]

Life, is for learning.

 

[gert]

Ha! No worries IO, no fuel system will impede my brake work - believe me... DONE with what I have with regard to brakes. DONE.

I will give the TBI some serious consideration. Seems somewhere on here I read a thread where a guy was doing a fuel injection setup from the junkyard and it cost him a bundle and never worked the last I read it... I'd guess he was doing some other type of EFI and not this.

It's kind of a scary proposition since I'm pretty weak on automotive electronics, but with enough time and this board I should be okay...

Hey we all start some where, one day I will tell you about the first time I did an electronic ignition swap Just take your time and ask lots of questions the good thing is that the tbi is a very well understood and documented system to use Also I forgot about that since I have an HEI distributer I am going with a 7 pin ignition module inside my distributer instead of the 8 pin. Also I like Binder's idea of running the whole fuel injection system off its own relay straight from the battery so you are not placing and electrical load on your stock wiring it has been a while since i looked this stuff up