properly setting the time

[DIG]

Can you tell me how to properly set the time on these 304's! I read my manual and it says to bring number one cyclinder up, then install chain and gear with the cam gear pointing around 3 o clock and the crank gear pointing at 6 o clock...Is there anything else I need to do!!

 

[CJ]

The #1 piston needs to be up at top dead center and the marks need to line up. Not at 3 and 6.

Are you sure that is what the book says? I have never seen that! The marks should be at 6 and 12 (pointing at each other)


I don't have a manual in front of me but that does not seem right.

 

[CJ]

I found an illustration.

 

[coldwater]

Actually, on a 304 engine, those marks are correct. the CAM gear at 3:00 and the crank gear at 6:00 Here's where it get's weird. I don't have a manual handy, but there needs to be (I think) 20 pins between the timing marks. If you have the manual, check that. Then rotate the assembled unit till the timing marks are are 6:00 for the cam, and the crank mark at 12:00. If the two marks don't line up EXACTLY, your valve timing will be off.

CHECK THIS FOR ACCURACY BEFORE YOU DO IT! THIS IS FROM MEMORY!!!

 

[CJ]

You know what, maybe that is where we have a disconnect. What gear set did you buy? I bet the marks are different depending on the manuf.

Is the 304 really different the the other v8's? Damn it has been a long time since I looked!

 

[DIG]

here is the cam I bought

FALCON PERFORMANCE ULTIMATE CAMSHAFT KIT
A Falcon Performance ULTIMATE CAM KIT offers you everything needed to perform a cam change for your street/strip machine... including gaskets!!!
This ultimate cam kit is for AMC/Jeep 290-304-360-401 V-8 engines and includes the following NEW parts:

• Camshaft
• Lifter Set
• Matched Valve Spring Set
• Chrome-moly Retainers
• Hardened Valve Locks (2-groove & 4-groove)
• Cam Change Gasket Set
• Cam Assembly Lube
• Double Roller Timing Set (Includes .250" Roller Pins and 3-keyway Crank Sprocket)

Kit Part
Number

Application Power RangeIdle
Quality/special requirementsValve Lift
Int/Exh
Duration Adv.
Int/Exh in degrees
Duration @.050
Int/Exh in degrees
Lobe
Centerline
CK6001
AMC/Jeep V8 290, 304, 360, 401 with hydraulic flat tappets
1800-5800 RPMLargest cam with stock converter. Likes headers & intake. Mild-rough idle.478/478304/304222/222114

Yeah I remember reading about the 20 pins......Would I go by the instructions for this cam or the instruction in my book???

 

[coldwater]

I wish I had a manual. Their not diferent really, but it has to do with the verification of valve timing. The first 304 I ever built, i just popped the gears in like I would have any old engine, and had problems. I got the manual, and found the routine to follow, and It worked perfectly. I just remember it was an odd set up, placing the marks at about 3 and 6, counting (I think) 20 pins between marks, then rotating till the marks were at 6 and 12. If they are off at all, the valve timing will be off. But again, I'm no engine wizard, and don't take my word for it! I just remember doing it on a few builds.

 

[CJ]

OK - Case solved - I scanned the pages from the factory manual and attached the PDF. The timing marks are aligned at TDC and when rotated 90 the marks are at 3 and 6...

 

[coldwater]

So...was I right, wrong, or off on another planet???

 

[CJ]

OK - Case solved - I scanned the pages from the factory manual and attached the PDF. The timing marks are aligned at TDC and when rotated 90 the marks are at 3 and 6...

The teeth should be between 20 and 21 when rotated...

So - A summary!

Install mark on cam at 6 and crank at 12. Rotate untill marks are at 3 on cam and 6 on crank. Count the # of teeth and the crankshaft mark should be between 20 and 21...

 

[DIG]

sweet thanks yall man I love this web site! So line the dots up, turn crank until cam is at 3 and crank is at 6 count teeth~ East enough! Oh and basically number 1 tdc since I have the heads and everything off is basically with the #1 piston all the way up right? then put my distributor in with the button facing towrad number 1.....Also do I need to put the oil slinger on any specific way?

 

[coldwater]

just make sure the #1 piston is on the proper up stroke for fire and not exhaust.

 

[DIG]

How do I know if its on the right stroke?

 

[CJ]

How do I know if its on the right stroke?

If you put rotate the engine so the marks are at 6 for the cam and 12 for the crank it is on the firing stroke. Don't rotate the engine any and put the dist rotor facing #1.

 

[DIG]

So I shouldnt rotate the engine to count the pins to double check that the motor is in time corectly? Did I mention I love this forum!

 

[CJ]

Did I mention I love this forum

Thanks!!!

So I shouldnt rotate the engine to count the pins to double check that the motor is in time corectly?

No, you need to do the steps outlined in the pdf. Put the cam in at 6 and the crank at 12, then rotate until the cam is at 3 and the crank is at 6, then count the teeth. Then rotate back to 6 and 12 again so you can install the dist correctly.

 

[DIG]

Oh ok that makes sense, thanks so much!

 

[TeamRush]

Actually, on a 304 engine, those marks are correct. the CAM gear at 3:00 and the crank gear at 6:00 Here's where it get's weird. I don't have a manual handy, but there needs to be (I think) 20 pins between the timing marks. If you have the manual, check that. Then rotate the assembled unit till the timing marks are are 6:00 for the cam, and the crank mark at 12:00. If the two marks don't line up EXACTLY, your valve timing will be off.

CHECK THIS FOR ACCURACY BEFORE YOU DO IT! THIS IS FROM MEMORY!!!

You are incorrect.
The 15 or 20 pins is for I-6 or I-4 engines.

V-8 timing marks line up CENTER LINE to the camshaft and Crankshaft.
---------------------------------

This is more like it for an AMC engine,
Take notice of where the vacuum advance is pointing...

----------------------------------

The correct procedure for finding TDC of #1 on Compression stroke is as follows...

Take out the #1 spark plug,

Put your finger OVER the #1 spark plug hole,

Turn the engine crankshaft CLOCKWISE BY HAND!
(DO NOT USE THE STARTER!)

Stop when you feel COMPRESSION STROKE starting.

Find a wooden dowel rod (Chop Stick will work) and stick it in the #1 Spark Plug Hole...

SLOWLY continue turning the crankshaft CLOCKWISE while feeling for the top of the #1 piston that is coming up...

When the piston reaches the closest point to being Fully AT THE TOP OF THE CYLINDER,
Then you have TOP DEAD CENTER (or very close to TDC) OF COMPRESSION STROKE.

THIS ONLY WORKS
*IF*...

1. YOU VERIFY COMPRESSION STROKE!
(Remember, there is a TDC of Exhaust Stroke too! This is a '4 stroke' engine!)

2. YOU VERIFY TDC OF THE #1 PISTON.

Then, and ONLY THEN, you have a look at the harmonic balancer to see if the 'Hash Mark' on it is lined up with the timing scale on the front cover.
It should be VERY close to 0°(zero) mark on the scale.

IF it is NOT within two or three degrees of 0° mark, then consider you have a bad balancer.
The outer ring where the mark is often slips on decomposing rubber between it and the hub...
And that two piece balancer is why you NEVER use a hammer to remove/install a balancer!

3. *IF*
YOU VERIFY THE 'HASH' MARK WITH THE TIMING SCALE,

Then you can move onto setting the distributor,
OR,
If the distributor is already installed, you can mark the location of the #1 spark plug wire terminal on the distributor base,
And flip the distributor cap to see if the ROTOR is pointing at the mark you made on the distributor at #1 terminal location...

4. *IF*
The rotor is pointing at the #1 terminal mark (more or less) then you have VERIFIED the distributor placement.

After this, you can use a timing light to directly set the timing with the engine running...

 

[CJ]

The 15 or 20 pins is for I-6 or I-4 engines.

V-8 timing marks line up CENTER LINE to the camshaft and Crankshaft.

Check the PDF that I attached on post #8 CLICK HERE

It is scanned from my factory 1972 Jeep manual and it says to count the pins also, after setting it initailly with the marks lined up and then rotated to cam 90 degrees. Some where we have a disconnect, but I believe we are all saying the same thing in the end

Your instructions are the correct way to set the timing with a cam in already, since he has the cam pulled out of the engine there is no compression stroke, that only come into play after the cam is indexed.