Build Thread Rough but Ready Renegade

[Sc37206]

Thanks, how close are we in production number? It has been set up for off road, I think I am going from 35's to 33's, remove the body lift, and get some low back seats. I like it as is, but I love the classic look more!

 

[BC CJ]

I love it! Body lifts are lame (well, small ones are handy, but 3" is too much), I am also dreaming of low back seats but its not in the budget for now.

Mine is 20574.

 

[BC CJ]

Woo-hoo. New brake shoes are on and the pulling is gone! So I took my son for a short drive and I think this is the first time I can say: the Jeep was a pleasure to drive. The handleing is tight, for a CJ , and the braking is nice and smooth.

The only issue is the brakes aren't overly responsive. When I hit them as hard as I can they dont lock up the wheels but rather a nice gentle stop. So I think my stopping distance is longer than it should be but this is not a big deal. Its safe to drive now for sure. The peddle also seems to work quite far down; I'm wondering if there is a peddle adjustment I could make that would solve this last issue. I haven't looked around under there yet.

Another happy note, the V8 sure left an impression on my 4yr old son! When we got back he was riding his tricycle around making loud reving noises

I guess the apples really don't fall far from the tree

 

[tarry99]

Woo-hoo. New brake shoes are on and the pulling is gone! So I took my son for a short drive and I think this is the first time I can say: the Jeep was a pleasure to drive. The handleing is tight, for a CJ , and the braking is nice and smooth.

The only issue is the brakes aren't overly responsive. When I hit them as hard as I can they dont lock up the wheels but rather a nice gentle stop. So I think my stopping distance is longer than it should be but this is not a big deal. Its safe to drive now for sure. The peddle also seems to work quite far down; I'm wondering if there is a peddle adjustment I could make that would solve this last issue. I haven't looked around under there yet.

Another happy note, the V8 sure left an impression on my 4yr old son! When we got back he was riding his tricycle around making loud reving noises

I guess the apples really don't fall far from the tree

BCCJ............Nice........I'm assuming 1975 Drum brakes all the way around and non powered?
There should be some adjustment at the MC push rod.

 

[billyocup]

BC CJ - Your rig is really looking great!

As far as I know, the isn't any adjustment between the pedal and the master cylinder. The connection is a rod about 4 in long that goes directly from the pedal into the MC. Have you tried bleeding the system to see if that makes any difference?

 

[BC CJ]

Hi Tarry, actually it has power brakes, they were an option in 75. I know the booster is working because the brakes really suck when the engine isn't running and there are no fluid leaks which should mean the master cylinder is ok... I think? No leaks in the plumbing either.

Thanks Bill! I bled the brakes a few days before after changing the front hoses for longer ones. It was my first time being the bleeder and not the peddle pumper. I kept at it until I didn't notice anymore air bubbles comming out... but maybe I could try again for good measure.

Test backroads drive is very soon, maybe today! But I need to get my hands on a spare propane tank first... not sure how bad the range really is yet

 

[tarry99]

Hi Tarry, actually it has power brakes, they were an option in 75. I know the booster is working because the brakes really suck when the engine isn't running and there are no fluid leaks which should mean the master cylinder is ok... I think? No leaks in the plumbing either.

Thanks Bill! I bled the brakes a few days before after changing the front hoses for longer ones. It was my first time being the bleeder and not the peddle pumper. I kept at it until I didn't notice anymore air bubbles comming out... but maybe I could try again for good measure.

Test backroads drive is very soon, maybe today! But I need to get my hands on a spare propane tank first... not sure how bad the range really is yet

BCCJ............seems like you have all the parts except there performance is off a little.
Low pedal , brake adjustment.........new shoes might take a 100 miles or so for the fluff to wear off ....then re-adjust....
were the shoes arched?..........did you replace the drums?
I have seen boosters get old and weak and not apply as much force as before. I am assuming that is vacuum operated......I would check the source and make sure it is ample, and also replace that line as they can get old and cracked. Last but not least a master cylinder can also react with with low pressure..................just have to go through the system and check off all the variables.

 

[Trucklocker]

I would do what tarry said. Shoes may well need to arc to the exact radius of the drum. Removing the drum will definitely show the wear pattern. Generally, they are too large of a radius, and will wear only at the ends of the linings, until they wear in quite a bit. A brake shop can arc them for you so you don't have to do that. Boosters do get leaky and uncooperative at times also, just like tarry said. You may also still have air in the lines. Sometimes it's trapped, and will show up as low braking force and a bit of a sponge-y feeling pedal. If the pedal isn't rock solid when you push fairly hard, then it's likely air is still in there. I would also adjust them often in the first 500 miles, as they will tend to wear in fast until the linings make complete contact. If the adjusters are finicky, you'll end up blowing one of your wheel cyllinder pistons out and coat the new linings with brake fluid again. My old CJ5 was power steering, but manual brakes. With 33's, I could lock all four up no problem with a pretty good stab at the pedal. Yours should certainly do that once all is well.

 

[BC CJ]

More new parts?? DOH! Well the first thing I'm going to try is adjusting the brakes. Apparently there should be an access hole in the backing plate so I can click the adjuster over until the wheel wont turn then back it off so with a good shove it'll turn about 1 rotation with some drag. If I can manage that then they should be set up right according to my mechanic buddy. Then I need to think about the same on the rears cause who knows that they are doing these days... it goes on and on.

But I am learning lots and can at least get out and drive the Jeep now! I was pretty intimidated by drum brakes, never worked on them before, when I started this this Jeep but now I'm pretty comfy tearing into them!

 

[BC CJ]

Hey Trucklocker. I figure I should be able to lock them up also. By your description I may still have a bit of air somewhere along the line. I think I'll try bleeding them again.

I free'd up the adjusters and they are working well so I think thats all good. I'll just have to keep adjusting them from time to time to keep them dialed in as these new shoes wear in.

Is it OK to just drive it and let the drums wear the new shoes into the proper arc?

 

[tarry99]

Hey Trucklocker. I figure I should be able to lock them up also. By your description I may still have a bit of air somewhere along the line. I think I'll try bleeding them again.

I free'd up the adjusters and they are working well so I think thats all good. I'll just have to keep adjusting them from time to time to keep them dialed in as these new shoes wear in.

Is it OK to just drive it and let the drums wear the new shoes into the proper arc?

BCCJ..........

Did you replace the drums?

and did you just do the fronts or all 4 corners?

Worn drums will also not make total contact with the shoes either and reduce the ability to stop.

 

[BC CJ]

Hey Tarry, sorry, I think you asked that before and I missed answering No I didn't replace drums. Just the front shoes. Rears I haven't touched yet.

So I made it out on a backroads run this afternoon and had some fun!

-A block away from the home the clutch peddle hit the floor! But it just came off the ball-joint thing on the rod through the floor. An easy fix. Whew!

-Steering seems a little over active at higher speeds (like 40mph and up). I need to be careful with the wheel but otherwise working well.

-I heard a fair number of weird noises while 4wheeling that I'm not used to in my 2003 Suzuki. Maybe its normal old Jeep noises... its been too long since I was driving this type of vehicle. Will be doing a thorough inspection soon.

-The 3 spd and Dana 20 aren't a stellar combo... and I think my diffs are 3.73 guessing by the revs and crawl speed. Works fine for mild trail crawling (mostly what I want to do anyhow) but is going to be a hindrance in the harder stuff.

-I brought an extra 40lbs tank of propane not having a clue how long the Jeep's tank would last but we ended up getting home with just under half a tank! Not bad, not bad indeed.

-And finally those brakes... they were their usual weak selves most of the trip until the last little bit (more down hill, more use) when they seemed to build a lot more presure higher up in the peddle travel and worked really well by the time we got home. My teory is the old girl just wanted to go wheeling and now she is healing herself Will continue to test...

Now since I jabbered on there for a while I guess I owe you all some pics!

Starting up. Nice day, recent rain kept the dust to a minimum.


Some puddles along the way and one washout I was able to go around.


One of my favorite half day trip destinations: Canyon Lake. Very beautiful.




Then heading down with gravity on my side I decided to straddle and go through the washout.




Unlocking the hubs, heading home. Everything related to 4wd worked flawlessly.

 

[tarry99]

Hey Tarry, sorry, I think you asked that before and I missed answering No I didn't replace drums. Just the front shoes. Rears I haven't touched yet.

So I made it out on a backroads run this afternoon and had some fun!

-A block away from the home the clutch peddle hit the floor! But it just came off the ball-joint thing on the rod through the floor. An easy fix. Whew!

-Steering seems a little over active at higher speeds (like 40mph and up). I need to be careful with the wheel but otherwise working well.

-I heard a fair number of weird noises while 4wheeling that I'm not used to in my 2003 Suzuki. Maybe its normal old Jeep noises... its been too long since I was driving this type of vehicle. Will be doing a thorough inspection soon.

-The 3 spd and dana 20 aren't a stellar combo... and I think my diffs are 3.73 guessing by the revs and crawl speed. Works fine for mild trail crawling (mostly what I want to do anyhow) but is going to be a hindrance in the harder stuff.

-I brought an extra 40lbs tank of propane not having a clue how long the Jeep's tank would last but we ended up getting home with just under half a tank! Not bad, not bad indeed.

-And finally those brakes... they were their usual weak selves most of the trip until the last little bit (more down hill, more use) when they seemed to build a lot more presure higher up in the peddle travel and worked really well by the time we got home. My teory is the old girl just wanted to go wheeling and now she is healing herself Will continue to test...

Now since I jabbered on there for a while I guess I owe you all some pics!

Starting up. Nice day, recent rain kept the dust to a minimum.


Some puddles along the way and one washout I was able to go around.


One of my favorite half day trip destinations: Canyon Lake. Very beautiful.




Then heading down with gravity on my side I decided to straddle and go through the washout.




Unlocking the hubs, heading home. Everything related to 4wd worked flawlessly.

Hey Beautiful place and nice Jeep.............but you made a few errors by not either getting the drums checked or cut. Likewise the shoes should have been arched & cut to fit the new drum dimension.
If the drums are old they may also have grooves or be worn to the point where there out of service because the ID is to large. Grooves will never allow the shoes to have full contact. Therefore your new front shoes will never get to there full stopping potential without these repairs. Like wise the rear should be also checked otherwise your stopping potential is further minimized. Get the stuff fixed..........then I will bet you'll be able to stand on them and lock them up!

 

[BC CJ]

No doubt that is ideal but I'm trying to do this on a budget. I only want to replace parts that are necessary. The drums and shoes were still good (had them visually checked by a brake guy - dad's friend who had stopped by), it was just the fluid leak that ruined the linings on the one side and that prompted the new shoes. I think getting the adjustment dialed in and possibly more bleeding should be all that's neccessary for now. Unless it's considered mandatory to have the new shoes cut to fit the drums. I'm still hoping I can just wear them in with use...

The rears looked fine a few months back but I never did check the adjusters; they may be siezed. Hopefully soon I'll get to that. Lots to do, lots to do...

 

[tarry99]

No doubt that is ideal but I'm trying to do this on a budget. I only want to replace parts that are necessary. The drums and shoes were still good (had them visually checked by a brake guy - dad's friend who had stopped by), it was just the fluid leak that ruined the linings on the one side and that prompted the new shoes. I think getting the adjustment dialed in and possibly more bleeding should be all that's neccessary for now. Unless it's considered mandatory to have the new shoes cut to fit the drums. I'm still hoping I can just wear them in with use...

The rears looked fine a few months back but I never did check the adjusters; they may be siezed. Hopefully soon I'll get to that. Lots to do, lots to do...

BCCJ.........I understand about budgets......but when it comes to safety my advice to you is to get it checked and fixed. Adjustment and more bleeding will do nothing for you if the drums are shot and the shoes are not aligned properly. You have already mentioned it stops sluggish like. If you have checked the rears that's fine.
At the very least you should take it to a brake shop that can arch your shoes and cut the drums if they need it......Either one of those functions will make a big change in how it stops.

 

[BC CJ]

After the first test run the poor Jeep just sat for a couple weeks. There was too much else going on. I finally fired it up and took it around the block a few times though.
I mentioned that the brakes seemed to be working better at the end of that trip and they were. Maybe the new shoes wore in to the drums or maybe an air bubble worked it's way out of the lines up into the master cylinder... I dont know. But the brakes are definately working a lot better. On the test drive today when I slam on the brakes as hard as I can they were right on the cusp of locking up the tires - I even heard a few quick chirps. And that was at pretty low speeds. So that seems all good for now.

Next up: the engine is running rich. There is too much propane smell. I think I'll play with the adjustment myself to try and make it a bit better but it needs to go to a shop with the right sniffer sensor thingy (thats the technical term for it!) to set it properly. Plus I want the exhaust leak fixed. It's at the manifold-pipe conection on the passenger side. The manifolds have a stud-nut system that is surely seized on there. I would probably have to heat the nut and in the end I'd probably break the stud anyways... I think I'll just pay a shop rather than killing myself with that job!

Now it's back to sitting for the Jeep because I'm away for a week. The poor old girl...she needs another 4x4 run this month!

 

[Trucklocker]

My take on the brakes is that the linings will eventually wear and arc themselves to the drums, but will have very low braking power in the meantime. Not really a safe situation. I've done it, but I don't recommend it. Air is sometimes very hard to get out of the system, and you would be amazed sometimes at how many times you have to do the pump-and-bleed procedure to exchange the whole line. Air wants to percolate to the highest point, and sometimes it doesn't want to flow downhill with the fluid if you have loops in your lines. Your front drums should be exactly the same type/brand/diameter. The rear drums should match each other, but don't necessarily have to match the fronts. But the linings should match fairly well (brand or material) all around, and you can't mix up front parts with rear parts, especially wheel cylinders. Good that you're seeing a harder pedal feel, and that it's stopping better.

 

[gliryan]

I'm so jealous of the area you live in! Northern MN is really nice, but I'd love to live in Canada for the outdoor aspect. I'm hoping to get myself a nice motorcycle, as compared to my two strokes and hardtails, and take it up there for a few weeks on an adventure.

 

[BC CJ]

Trucklocker, the brakes are working prety good now so I'm going to drive her while I slowly work on the long list of things that need some dialing in. Asfor safety, it's a big concern for me as I'm usually hauling my son around with me. I let my driving be my main safety feature. I drive trucks with heavy equipment on board for a living so i'm used to driving slower, leaving more space behind the next vehicle, gearing down, etc... I drive the Jeep the same way

gliryan, Like the USA, Canada is big and the terrain varried. But with so much smaller a population I think our nature area's are more remote, quieter. If you liked those pics you would like the south central area of British Columbia - there are thousands of lakes to find! If it`s mountains you like then the eastern area that borders the next province, Alberta, is great! But by the looks of things Colorado is as good or better than up here Google Earth is an amazing place to plan trips. I`m adicted to it!

 

[Trucklocker]

You are certainly the best judge of that, and I agree. Driving habits are the best safety feature on any vehicle. Enjoy the ride, and great job!