She really does want to start--but won't!

[FortWorthSAM]

Howdy folks. New to the Jeep and CJ family as of a couple of months ago. Picked up a '77 CJ5 with the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l from my uncle--been sitting under a shed for a long time. It would run if you poured some gas into it. Got it home and replaced a number of parts, all OEM, and rebuilt the 1bbl Carter to the best of my ability. All was well--it putted around my house as I continued to replace parts and test drive it.

This came to a screeching halt a few weeks back when I went to replace the distributor and ignition system (prompted by ICM going bad and not wanting to spark anymore). For starters, I have the Prestolite, and from what I've read it's not too great. I have new ICM, coil, distributor, cap, rotor, wires, & plugs. All parts were sourced from the Zone or OReillys as OEM. The issue came about when we didn't place a reference mark on the ol' dizzy when it got pulled.

No worries though right? I'll find the compression stroke, TDC on #1, and orient my distributor from there? I've started from scratch repeating these steps ~3x now and cannot get it to go! It ran once very poorly for ~30seconds and then died as I tried to adjust the cap.

I have validated spark on a couple of cylinders (not all) and tested for fuel flow. It will crank and sputter like it wants to start, but just never get fired over on it's own. I've tried starting fluid and that will just make it sputter longer, but again, never fires over.

I've never timed a vehicle but am surprised if it needs to be more precise to run again? Seeing that it was running before I started ripping out ignition components, I have a feeling thats where the issue remains...

I've read everything I can find on it, so open to and looking for all suggestions! Can I post a video on here so you can hear it or what?

Cheers,
Sam

 

[Torxhead]

It does sound like you need to verify if the distributor alignment is correct to begin with. I found 3 YouTube videos that could help you out, starting with this one:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a2X9mSSlQY. Then the two others will follow. For the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l , I would suggest pointing the distributor vacuum canister to the front. Good luck

 

[Hedgehog]

You are likely 180* out. Oddly enough occasionally an engine will run horribly but it will run with the dist.180* out. I'm betting on that being the problem. What does your timing mark say? The engine will run at 0* advance. Set it at 0* try to start it. If it won't start. Pull the dist. turn the engine 180* back to the timing mark. Stick it again ..... I am assuming the plug wires are correct, making sure the rotor is pointing at the post with the wire going to #1 cylinder. With the vacuum line disconnected and plugged. It should start.

 

[FortWorthSAM]

Thx TorxHead--watched those this morning actually

HedgeHog--Since I feel like I'm at rock bottom, I'll try a 180, but I swear I'm hitting it going into the power stroke. In the couple of times I've started from scratch, I've tried the mark @ 0* and 8* (no luck on either really). I have the Hayne's manual to validate wire/fire order and should be good there.

 

[Hedgehog]

You wouldn't be the first to make the 180* out mistake. You see it on the car shows all the time.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

:ww:
Just dealt with this issue today on a friends Jeep. The dizzy drive gear was not indexed correctly and the rotor was pointed off location.
BTW: You really need a timing light anytime you mess with the dizzy.
LG

 

[FortWorthSAM]

I can't even use the light cause I can't get it cranked! I started again from scratch (tried 180* away before starting over) and it still won't fire. If it should run with the crank @ 0* and the rotor pointed directly at your #1 plug on the cap, then I must have something else wrong. I've tried 5x now so I don't get it...

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Won't crank-As in turn with the starter??
LG

 

[FortWorthSAM]

My misuse of words. It cranks fine but can't get it to fire up. I should rename it the battery killer cause it's good at that these days.

 

[gert]

My misuse of words. It cranks fine but can't get it to fire up. I should rename it the battery killer cause it's good at that these days.

Need someone to swing by and lend a hand?

 

[jdcaples]

Need someone to swing by and lend a hand?

Wow. You'd drive 120 miles (give or take) to help a fellow Jeeper. You're a fine, upstanding human being, gert! -Jon

 

[gert]

Wow. You'd drive 120 miles (give or take) to help a fellow Jeeper. You're a fine, upstanding human being, gert! -Jon

Everything is bigger in Texas including the commute sounds like he needs help, and I have run into this problem several times myself including dropping the disto in 180 out. I also have a timing light which he will need to set his final timing with

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Need someone to swing by and lend a hand?

HIDE the beer.......
LG

 

[tarry99]

I can't even use the light cause I can't get it cranked! I started again from scratch (tried 180* away before starting over) and it still won't fire. If it should run with the crank @ 0* and the rotor pointed directly at your #1 plug on the cap, then I must have something else wrong. I've tried 5x now so I don't get it...

Pull all the spark plugs.......you need to be able to crank the motor over slowly, either via the key switch or remote.......put your thumb or first finger in the number 1 cylinder spark plug hole........not inside just to the point that your plugging the area outside.....if you have a blank compression check adapter that also works. In either case with your finger over the hole , rotate the motor slowly until you can feel air pressure from the compression stroke pushing against it........stop there.......take a breaker bar and slowly rotate the motor over in the correct direction until you can see the top of the piston...................that's TDC on number 1...............now take a look at your timing marks on the front cover vs the front hub...........if they are off only a few degrees that's fine........... if they are off a bunch then the timing chain or gear up front is suspect.........meaning your piston to valve timing is off.

If it's just a few degree's off then drop the distributor in to whatever location works best for clearance.........where ever the rotor points to that will be Number 1.........then rewire the cap in the proper direction to accommodate that.

 

[FortWorthSAM]

Thanks Tarry--that's what I've done ~5x now! When I go to turn her over, it tries to catch, but just won't! A couple of weeks ago (from my OP) it ran for ~30secs but sounded horrible. I'm wondering if somehow something got messed up in the carb

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Can you put the old dizzy back in?
LG

 

[FortWorthSAM]

I would do that--but I turned it into the Zone for a $10 core

 

[007]

I had a Prestolite setup on my V8, and I had more than one bad/weak ICM right from the store. Enough that I always carried (and recommend you do too) an extra with me. Same with the coil...

Long story short - you can't rule out bad or weak new parts. If you have any of the old stuff put it back one-by-one, never more than one at any given time and see if you progress. Like if you put the old coil back and it's no better, take it back out and put the new one back in and try something else.

My 2 cts.

 

[FortWorthSAM]

Thats a good point. Unfortunately, those parts are gone. Would getting spark out of the plug rule out that any of those ignition related parts are bad? I am getting spark (took a cool slo-mo video yesterday with the ol' iPhone), but I don't know if it's good or bad spark. It seems weak to me although is is blueish in color.

 

[007]

Weak spark "could" cause what you're seeing... Just asking...are you SURE the plug wires are routed to the correct plugs...?