stalls

[WAXER]

OK after about 200 mile in my new 86 CJ7 , AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l , 5 spd.....
Started and ran until it stalled out. After a while it started again and ran until it stalled out. (smelled like it was flooded?). Did this 3 or 4 times then had it towed in. Mech checked it for vacuum leaks, smoke test?, found plugs black-running rich. Ignition looks fine. Mech does not know that much about the aftermarket Weber carbs, but thinks that is the problem. Refered me to another (speed) shop. What am I looking at? Carb clean/rebuild and tune up maybe? Any thoughts?
Thanks

Follow up question- Before I spend a bunch of coin to fix carb, Is now a good time to think about Howell EFI???

 

[gillmore]

I don't have a Weber, but here are a few inexpensive things to consider:
Could your fuel lines be getting too hot? Is having the lines & filter in the current position a problem?
Is your fuel filter's return line on top?
Do you need a new fuel filter?
Have you used any aerosol carb cleaner and/or gas additive?

 

[Busted Knuckles]

I know little about the weber, Id at least check float level if the plugs are black and you can smell fuel, plus what gillmore suggested

If youre going to change out fuel system, Id throw an early MC2100 on it for the work well, are simple, very inexpensive, quick, easy,..

As far as really diagnosising your stall, thats pretty much a "vehicle has to be here" kind of thing. Way too many variables to work out over the web.

 

[WAXER]

So the MC2100 is more basic / simple than the Weber 32/36 ? Not to open another can of worms but, you prefer a carb over EFI ?
WAXER

 

[IOPort51]

why do you think it is the fuel rather than the spark??
It takes about 200 miles for this to happen?? How long befor it restarts and untill it stalls again. Did you pull a wire to check for spark??
I'm thinking ECM but not enough info to tell.

 

[MN CJ7]

I agree with the poster above... the two outlet jeep type filter needs the return line on the top... so air goes out the filter and to return. Keeps the fuel flow to carb full of fuel.

Webers are know to be rich..... they provide more fuel... It is expected/sized that your ignition be top notch. What year of jeep do you have???? and what do you have for ignition???... whats been removed and changed and your understanding of???

There are ignition tricks that can help with rich ness.

Once plugs are black they need to be clean or replaced..... so bring a wire brush with you incase you get stuck again. The BLack Carbon is conductive and grounds out your spark... so little ignition spark. Not your issue but once fouling get to certain level your are dead in the water.

WEBER CARBS NEED 3.5 psi.... NO IFS OR BUTS.... some get lucky with dual outlet fuel filter and I have been told there is a resistriction in the flow of return port.... but I have never looked. I think return line is a good thing to have... keeps your fuel cool, does not put too large load on the fuel pump, flow cools fuel pump... so they have bennnies. I do not run a return line on my Weber set up and 99% works very well.

Best way to control the fuel pres is the low pressure Holley Fuel regulator set at 3 to 3.5 psi. I use the 3.5 psi. The float and seat are not set up to hold back more fuel pressue. NOt uncommon... all carbs and all FI has a fuel range they like to work with. Low press like Weber is kinda unique in US... but these are EU Carbs and well respected. Just need to know the basics to set them up.

Computer, Non comuter vintage, TEAMRUSH stuff, aux grounds certain things are the corrective issues.

Spill your guts... telll what you have ,pics, tell us what has been changed. How long has the carb been installed. Did you buy it new.

I would like to see more pics of the engine bay too.

 

[Busted Knuckles]

So the MC2100 is more basic / simple than the Weber 32/36 ? Not to open another can of worms but, you prefer a carb over EFI ?
WAXER

Sure Id take EFI every time, but its cost prohibitive for most. Point being, if its a jeep, and it needs or is getting a carb, the 2100 is the way to go. And that is a matter of opinion. Have been there and done that, have not ran a weber, although I did help a best friend install a weber on his Opel GT, and it was new carb, and we never go it right. Car ran great on the stock carb and the weber ended up getting removed, so I have Limited weber exposure, and it just wasnt good, and Id never drop that much coint on a carb, when a used $15 (plus kit) 2100 runs just as good or better. Best of luck with it, BK.

 

[MN CJ7]

We do work on what we know...usually....

Weber is a very large company and did not get that way by selling junk.

Usually a change of carbs, updating classics, and work we do is to fix a issue and make better. Another words there are usually other issues and rare is the time I run into a very good running jeep.... most are just ok... not great...

If the poster is running a 1986 his system is runnign 3 deg mech advance, normal vac advance if not screwed around with, due to "x" computer user finds needs far toooooooooo much initial advance that does not change or work with engine needs.....

Combine this with a Weber carb that will supply more fuel and it fall flat in its face in short order. It is easy to change if you know how.

This forum seems to miss this fact totaly.

Once the computer is taken out the engine will never need to be tuned at 1600 (rpm range for a computer thats opeational) or 2000 rpm that I saw a few times. The computer operation version wanted this because the computer could only take out advance not put it in.... So it used O2, knock sensors to take advance out and adj the carb.... simple one way, take out advance only, and it worked. Once the carb is short, or some part of the system does not feed the computer or there is error it goes limp mode to get home and will not work welll ..... just get home.

Used carbs for $50 to 100 is true for both Webers and 2100. Want new FI are they not in the 2k range. So if we compare used do it across the board. Webers are $300 or under and that includes the linkages and adapter plate.

POSTER has a weber carb, looks pretty new... he needs to tell us.... so lets fix that.... it the cheepest route right for now.

Once you change a carb... the vac levels need to be ploted so you can set you advance curve so they work together... this gets missed too.

The stock distributor is fully adjustable... and even the computer versions can be corrected.

I can help with this kinda stuff and was well taught. No I did not invent... If the can of worms and the other stuff and insults keeps comming it will never be released here. So far does not look too good to me.

 

[Busted Knuckles]

I can help with this kinda stuff and was well taught. No I did not invent... If the can of worms and the other stuff and insults keeps comming it will never be released here. So far does not look too good to me.

What is that in reference too ?, Im lost with your last 2 sentences.. ?

 

[MN CJ7]

What is that in reference too ?, Im lost with your last 2 sentences.. ?

Busted,

I have been posting here for less than a month....and have experienced several verbal attacks, profanity, offered a correct solutions and was told I did not ask about a water heated manifold, and even one said.... I do not believe you got Borg Warner Parts at Oriley, they do not carry them.

CheepJeep has been the primary offender so far with about a dozen count so far... a second jeeper followed right in his path with "he did not ask for that" I am a trucker too and then some profanity to top it off.

Internet help is hard enough
Will not post help here if it continues


Fred



take a look at CheepJeeps Thread where he hoged out the center section of intake / carb mtd area. He saw puddled fuel and posted up in a tech fashion as a solutionn for fuel puddles. When posted info on Jeeps Heated Intake Manifold Stock Setup...... Was told did not ask about the heating of manifold and the manifold in picture is not my manifold..... its a picture. I just saw powerblog this weekend was doing plant tour of custom engine shop and they do lots of heads, polish, porting..... " engineer comment cannot remove more than 1cc when doing this porting work" I posted agree to match carb gaskets and adapters so smooth.....

Take a look at top of Forum page.... CJ put a engine changes thread at top by Rescue. I6 & V8 engine changes over the years. Most CJs use the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l and that is what many of us work on. The AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l HEADS & ROCKER arms vary a great deal over the years. It can tell you the vintage of year for head/ maybe engine. But the push rods vary a great deal and the..... parts stores...... will sell the wrong length and different lengths for the same year. Sorrry..... but what I have found there are lots of AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l with the wrong push rods. I got one delivered to me as long block. VERY GOOD stuff and it was sht on as the wrong stuff in the wrong thread, he did not ask for that. Even when I show this was the correct place.... then insulted profanity.

So maybe I run into a few.......... what ever you like to use for words..... Seems I am getting the .................. words and profanity and what ever you want to use for words far more than I care for.

Maybe being a bit sensative about this.... but should be obvious by my posts I do have some CJ knowledge. Maybe this is why / what so many just do their own tech web sites and domains.

I am here to help... do not need much help..... but at this rate there willl be little to no fun.


I hope that helps with clarity.... and time will tell.


Fred....

 

[Cheepjeep85]

!!!

 

[CJ]

I'm gonna request that for those members that seam to irritate each other utilize the ignore feature located in your user CP.

Thank you,

 

[Cheepjeep85]

ah very good didn't know about that one. done

 

[IOPort51]

I would like to respectfully and politely ask my friends to please check your ego's at the door. I do not recall anybody having need of the ignore button. I would just as soon it not start now.

This is not politics, these are not things that need argument. State your "opinion" and set down. If you disagree, ask a question, don't restate your position. The system works quite well, give it a try, please. Lighten the H#!! up!

 

[WAXER]

HI, Remember me?

Well, first Mech said it was in the carb. The second Mech (speed shop) did not touch the carb, it was in the ignition. At the same time, I had him put in my HEI (ebay unit $65) so I don't know what exactly was wrong with it. Also new plugs and wires. I only drove it home about a mile, but it seemed to start alot easier. When I get some time I'll take it out for a good run. The HEI unit is huge compared to the old dist. My tach is working. The only thing I don't like is the numbers he wrote on the cap and body, I'll have to try and get them off. Also, noticed no more vacuum advance. I'll post back after I run it for awhile and let you know how its working. Thanks for all the help. Sorry for things getting ugly in this thread. Remember, we are all JEEPERS!

WAXER

 

[WAXER]

New HEI

OK, its the weekend and I will not talk to the mech who installed my HEI until Monday. But, in the mean time, why do you think he capped my vacuum advance? From what I read, vacuum advance would help increase MPG (for what its worth on a CJ) and help with longer engine life? I'm thinking I should have him hook it back up?

 

[my5]

Re: New HEI

Wow, I'm surprised he did that - the advance is used to advance timing upon acceleration, if this is disconnected the engine will not perform well - this is pretty basic stuff?? Unless he ran into a problem during the install that he didn't tell you about, I would reattach the vacuum advance ASAP - see how engine performs, you may even want to recheck your timing and YES, it will affect your fuel economy.

 

[IOPort51]

:laugh: after all that it had nothing to do with the carburetor!!:laugh:

HI, Remember me?

Well, first Mech said it was in the carb. The second Mech (speed shop) did not touch the carb, it was in the ignition. At the same time, I had him put in my HEI (ebay unit $65) so I don't know what exactly was wrong with it. Also new plugs and wires. I only drove it home about a mile, but it seemed to start alot easier. When I get some time I'll take it out for a good run. The HEI unit is huge compared to the old dist. My tach is working. The only thing I don't like is the numbers he wrote on the cap and body, I'll have to try and get them off. Also, noticed no more vacuum advance. I'll post back after I run it for awhile and let you know how its working. Thanks for all the help. Sorry for things getting ugly in this thread. Remember, we are all JEEPERS!

WAXER

 

[MN CJ7]

If the poster is running a 1986 his system is runnign 3 deg mech advance, normal vac advance if not screwed around with, due to "x" computer user finds needs far toooooooooo much initial advance that does not change or work with engine needs.....

Combine this with a Weber carb that will supply more fuel and it fall flat in its face in short order. It is easy to change if you know how.

HI, Remember me?

Well, first Mech said it was in the carb. The second Mech (speed shop) did not touch the carb, it was in the ignition. At the same time, I had him put in my HEI (ebay unit $65) so I don't know what exactly was wrong with it. Also new plugs and wires. I only drove it home about a mile, but it seemed to start alot easier. When I get some time I'll take it out for a good run. The HEI unit is huge compared to the old dist. My tach is working. The only thing I don't like is the numbers he wrote on the cap and body, I'll have to try and get them off. Also, noticed no more vacuum advance. I'll post back after I run it for awhile and let you know how its working. Thanks for all the help. Sorry for things getting ugly in this thread. Remember, we are all JEEPERS!

WAXER

Yep,... sorry too

after the computer is removed there needs to be ignition work. Its a realy big issue.... I have helped on way over a 100 of them. Sorry to say... we have gone from far too little advance control in the X Computer Duarspart to the other end.


HEI Distributor......These are known for having far too much advance control. The solution after installing these is to remove the vac advance becaus it will rattle if it is used. The GM HEI type of dist uses and activates on a much lower vac level than the Ford/Jeep DuraSpark Distributor..... so the HEI will add vac advance way too early and at a lower vac signal.

In addition to the vac level issue they are known to have up to 45 or 55 deg of advance. That is very high when compaired to the 33-35 deg the AMC engine should have.




There is a method to limit the vac level and to lower the over all advance. Many times I see double digit initial advance and that is high also... but you did not say... if you were not told, might want to get that info from the shop.

There is big issue with hardened gears on the HEIs that ARE MADE FOR THE AMC JEEP ENGINES.... petty wide spread on I6 and V8. The test is try to drill with std drill bit... if you get dimple it is good. If does not touch its going to eat you cam gear.

Thats a summary... you can read more and see pics and how to

JeepHammer’s Knowledge Base Web Site

http://www.junkyardgenius.com/ignition/jeep/HEIcompair.html




The numbers on the dist...
It is common to write the cylinder when doing a tune up. It shows the fire order if you know rotar rotation direction or see it. The numbers are written with a sharpe. If you take wires off the #1 cyliinder is front and the rear cylinder by firewall is #6 it can be usefull to have. The fire order is written on you intake and will follow the #1 cap/wire with the rotation.

I think its good to have... you #1 is usually marked in the cap plastic already.
Can remove the sharpy with a bit of brake cleaner on a paper towel and will wipe off like wet.... Just do it quick and leave it... brake cleaner not great for plastics. Will wipe off instant... I suggest you leave it once you understand what it is.

There may also be a initial advance number I will guess it between 9 and 14 deg and as said above I would like it to be much less.


... still suggest the holley low pres regulator. Summit Racing carries them, others and even WEber CArbs Direct carries them too.


Congrads on getting it running better,

Fred





And Last...
You stock DuraSpark Distributor.... if you are going to trash it... I would like it if still in one pc. Even the cap & rotar.... I need a oem one to cut window in for trouble shooting other jeepers that visit me here in MN. It will need to have the mech slot opened up and the rotar phase may need to be adjusted also. Rotar phase needs to be adj on the engine and that particular engine. Let me know.

 

[Cheepjeep85]

the advance on the hei can be corrected with different springs in the distributor, which is the same way that DUI corrects the advance curve. Summit Racing SUM-G5212 - Summit Racing® HEI Advance Curve Kits - Overview - SummitRacing.com a stiffer spring will lower the amount of advance.