T150 noise

[Lumpy Grits]

How much freeplay does the pedal have. You want 1-1 1/4". No more-no less.
LG

 

[quinletc]

I don't think I seen where you ever answered this OP - before dropping the tranny (if you haven't already) check your pedal freeplay for specified slop (freeplay) and make sure it didn't just change a bit... This could be a super easy fix - unless you've already checked this, this is the first place I'd check.

There is some free-play, though not a ton. I consider this a possibility, but the FSM says that if the problem is the throwout bearing, the noise should present with the clutch pedal depressed. If the noise goes away when the clutch pedal is depressed, the FSM indicates the problem is likely with the Transmission bearings.

All the same, I am praying it is the throwout bearing.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

PLZ-Measure the play, and let us know. The play will decrease as the friction disc wears.
LG

 

[quinletc]

PLZ-Measure the play, and let us know. The play will decrease as the friction disc wears.
LG

Son has the Jeep at the moment. Will measure tonight.

Since there is always some resistance from the return springs, what exactly am I measuring? From when the pedal is pressed to when the throwout lever starts to move?

 

[JR74CJ5]

Yeah, you'll feel the differance between the spring resistance and starting to move the linkage (assuming you have linkage that is).

you are correct about the throwout bearing technically (and so is the FSM), but in the early stages, it seems to be opposite - or maybe it's the clutch? not sure... Basically whenever I replace clutch I replace it all in there, and I replace it when I'm dead stopped engine running and I can hear it in there chattering and humming when the clutch is out. When I push the clutch it, it releases the clutch disc from the flywheel, and everything else is under pressure, so it quiets. But clutch out again and noise comes back - again stationary not in gear just working the clutch when engine running.

We're saying check the free play because if it somehow did tighten (normally wear would cause it to loosen (more freeplay) and cause you not to be able to fully engage clutch, but strange things can happen) then your throwout bearing would be riding on the clutch housing and cause noises... If you don't have enough freeplay, it's almost worse than too much as too much you can't move, forcing you to fix it, too little however and you just burn it all up while you're still able to drive.

However, sometimes the inner channel for the clutch fork starts to wear on the throwout bearing letting it be too loose which also might give you the symptoms that's opposite of the FSM notes for failed throwout bearing...

Normally now honestly, I've replaced my clutches because I've melted them wheeling, now with lower gearing I haven't had that issue for a while at least...

All that mumbo jumbo circle talk to the side, I'd check the free play good, then move on to pulling the Transmission and inspecting the clutch, flywheel, bearings etc... Or possible try to get a better confirmation before, as I hate dropping my tranny these days! lol

 

[quinletc]

Yeah, you'll feel the differance between the spring resistance and starting to move the linkage (assuming you have linkage that is).

you are correct about the throwout bearing technically (and so is the FSM), but in the early stages, it seems to be opposite - or maybe it's the clutch? not sure... Basically whenever I replace clutch I replace it all in there, and I replace it when I'm dead stopped engine running and I can hear it in there chattering and humming when the clutch is out. When I push the clutch it, it releases the clutch disc from the flywheel, and everything else is under pressure, so it quiets. But clutch out again and noise comes back - again stationary not in gear just working the clutch when engine running.

We're saying check the free play because if it somehow did tighten (normally wear would cause it to loosen (more freeplay) and cause you not to be able to fully engage clutch, but strange things can happen) then your throwout bearing would be riding on the clutch housing and cause noises... If you don't have enough freeplay, it's almost worse than too much as too much you can't move, forcing you to fix it, too little however and you just burn it all up while you're still able to drive.

However, sometimes the inner channel for the clutch fork starts to wear on the throwout bearing letting it be too loose which also might give you the symptoms that's opposite of the FSM notes for failed throwout bearing...

Normally now honestly, I've replaced my clutches because I've melted them wheeling, now with lower gearing I haven't had that issue for a while at least...

All that mumbo jumbo circle talk to the side, I'd check the free play good, then move on to pulling the trans and inspecting the clutch, flywheel, bearings etc... Or possible try to get a better confirmation before, as I hate dropping my tranny these days! lol

I sure hope it's the throwout bearing or something else with the clutch. I am mentally prepared for that job, as I had to take the tranny out and re-seat the throwout bearing when I replaced broken clutch linkage.

I am not (and more importantly, my wife is not) mentally prepared for a Transmission rebuild. She does not want a non-functional CJ5 in her carport.

On a mostly unrelated note, I had been driving the CJ this week, as I didn't want my son to have to deal with a breakdown on his way to school. Last night, he came to me and said, "Dad, I want to drive the Jeep tomorrow. Your truck is boring."

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Measure from where the pedal is. Then lightly push down till you feel resistance(that is when the T/O bearing touches the p'plate)and that is 'freeplay'.

JR74CJ5-As the friction plate wears, it becomes thinner. That in turn moves the p'plate closer the the f'wheel. That raises the p'plate's 'fingers' that come in contact with the T/O bearing. Hence you 'lose' 'freeplay' because of this.


LG

 

[mriplaybass]

Not trying to be a know it all, but I am confused! If I am reading the posts correctly, there are conflicting statements. One states that as the clutch wears, free play increases, the other states that free play decreases with wear. I know from experience on pre-hydraulic clutchs, the Mack's and Freightliners that I had (and every other vehicle as well), as the clutch wore, free play decreased. Is this where we are, or am I having a senior moment. Hate to confuse the OP.

 

[quinletc]

Measure from where the pedal is. Then lightly push down till you feel resistance(that is when the T/O bearing touches the p'plate)and that is 'freeplay'.

JR74CJ5-As the friction plate wears, it becomes thinner. That in turn moves the p'plate closer the the f'wheel. That raises the p'plate's 'fingers' that come in contact with the T/O bearing. Hence you 'lose' 'freeplay' because of this.


LG

I had about 3/4" of freeplay. So, when I fixed the linkage, I guess I didn't allow enough freeplay to preserve the throwout bearing. I suppose it's a good thing, then, that I kept the old throwout bearing in there, instead of burning up a new one.

The throwout bearing is definitely bad. Still spins OK, but there is rattle and other noise when turning by hand.

The input shaft has very little play and makes no noise when turned by hand. Whew!

The flywheel looks completely uniform and feels totally smooth to the touch. The friction plate on the clutch still had some life left in it, so is there a reason to have the flywheel surfaced?

QUESTION - How do I get the pilot bushing out? It's in there tight, and there's not really anything to grab on to.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Pack the p'bearing with grease.
Drive a close fitting bolt into the bearing's hole. The grease will hydrolic the bearing out.

Have you tried adjusting the pedal freeplay at ALL?
Leave the f'wheel as is.

LG

 

[quinletc]

Pack the p'bearing with grease.
Drive a close fitting bolt into the bearing's hole. The grease will hydrolic the bearing out.

Have you tried adjusting the pedal freeplay at ALL?
Leave the f'wheel as is.

LG

Thanks!

I adjusted the freeplay initially, but I don't think I measured properly. It's a moot point now anyway, as the bearing is no good. Will make sure I get it right with the new one.

And thanks again!

 

[quinletc]

Pack the p'bearing with grease.
Drive a close fitting bolt into the bearing's hole. The grease will hydrolic the bearing out.

Um, what if that doesn't work? I've packed it and tried to press it out by inserting a bolt. Even made the bolt fatter by wrapping with tape and putting a nitrile glove on it.

Next?

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Fill the bearing almost to the outer edge with grease....
Smack it with a BFH, that will built the internal psi a whole bunch.
I have never failed to have a p'bearing come out this way.
Just keep adding grease as need'd
LG

 

[mtnwhlr]

Maybe a video will help https://www.google.com/url?url=http...kIGTAA&usg=AFQjCNH7sB2zg1mGRUbHPoISd8JLnDlYfA

 

[quinletc]

Maybe a video will help https://www.google.com/url?url=http...kIGTAA&usg=AFQjCNH7sB2zg1mGRUbHPoISd8JLnDlYfA

Interesting. Might have stuck with it if the flywheel had been sitting on a table, instead of still being under my Jeep.

Instead, after an hour or two of trying to pack grease in there and pop the bushing out with hydraulic pressure, I went to AutoZone, got a pilot bushing puller and slide-hammer through their free tool rental program, and popped the bushing out with about 4-5 hits from the slide-hammer. I highly recommend this method. Quick, cheap, and clean.

Got the new pilot bushing in without any fuss, put the clutch housing back on, and then spent about 5 hours trying to get the Transmission back in place. It just would not go all the way in.

I suspect that centering the input shaft in the new, tighter-fitting pilot bushing is the problem. The old one was pretty worn on the inside. The new one fit the shaft, but with much closer tolerances.

I waved the white flag and dropped it with a trusted mechanic this morning.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Hope you didn't do something to damage the p'bushing's I.D.
How did you line up the clutch plate etc. with the p'bushing?

LG

 

[quinletc]

Hope you didn't do something to damage the p'bushing's I.D.
How did you line up the clutch plate etc. with the p'bushing?

LG

Not sure how I could have. Used the alignment tool that came with the clutch kit. It was all lined up and fine.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

How did you seat/set the bearing?
Did you ck the bearing ID for fitment on the clutch shaft before the install?
If it's one of the plastic alignment tools. They will flex some as you cross-tighten the p'plate to the f'wheel.
LG

 

[quinletc]

How did you seat/set the bearing?
Did you ck the bearing ID for fitment on the clutch shaft before the install?
If it's one of the plastic alignment tools. They will flex some as you cross-tighten the p'plate to the f'wheel.
LG

Seated the bearing by using a socket of roughly the same diameter, and tapping with a hammer - took a while.

I did check the bearing for fitment on the shaft.

It was plastic. Possible that happened. I went gradually, tightening every other bolt - went around probably 5 times before final torque application. But still, I suppose it could have gotten off-center by a little.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

My bet then, is the so-called 'alignment tool' flex'd a bit.
Do you have a tranny shop near you? Maybe you could buy an input shaft from a beat T-150 .
LG