T176 Question?

[vintagetrks]

I have an 80 CJ7 with a T-176 and Dana 300 AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l engine. My T-176 absolutely does not like to shift into second gear at anything over 5 mph. Is this a common issue? Also it does want to downshift from 3rd to 2nd. Otherwise it shifts smooth and works great. Could it be worn Synchros?

 

[tarry99]

That sure sounds like that 2nd gear slider synchronizer .

 

[vintagetrks]

That sure sounds like that 2nd gear slider synchronizer .

Are those hard to replace? Or should I start thinking about getting it rebuilt?

 

[IOPort51]

It isn't very hard,It is heavy and very close attention to detail needed.

total rebuild kit available in quite a few places E=bay etc..

there is a bearing puller you may have to buy or build, as I recall the hardest part was pulling the output bearing. the FSM has a pretty good section on the rebuild and I think you can find a couple sited for the job.

set it up on a bench, I used a couple saw horses and a 1/2 sheet of plywood so I could walk all the way around it and build a cradle for it to set in so it will not flop around and it is a bunch easier.

I had a T-177 in my J-10 that had been rode hard for a lot of years. It had a talent for jumping out of 3rd decelerating in gear.

 

[vintagetrks]

Recently took it on a mild trail and it seemed to do a little better after I had changed the oil in it. But it still does'nt care to upshift at any higher than 6 or 8 mph but will downshift slightly better into second. Starting to wonder if this is due to it sitting for an extended period of time or just wishful thinking on my part.

 

[tarry99]

Wishful thinking, still sounds like syncros.

 

[CJ007]

Yea, second should not be like that.

 

[MN CJ7]

Recently took it on a mild trail and it seemed to do a little better after I had changed the oil in it. But it still does'nt care to upshift at any higher than 6 or 8 mph but will downshift slightly better into second. Starting to wonder if this is due to it sitting for an extended period of time or just wishful thinking on my part.

bingo.... the wrong fluid or the wrong gear lube will mess you up and cause hard shifts.... I put GL5 in my T-18 several yrs ago and it started to and acted like failure comming..... even started to rattle going down the road making noise....

Put GL4 or better put the AMSOIL MTF (manual Transmission fluid) and be amazed.... I used Napa Gl4 for several yrs and then wanted to try the AMSOIL MTF...... I have put the amsoil in two std Transmission that both acted like failing Transmission ..... fixed both of them in short order.... that was two yrs ago...

My T-18 shift like a regular Transmission ..... its a HD truck Transmission with a very long throw.... AMSOIL is the way to go and its lists all the jeep Transmission on the back of lable... use it for the Transfer Case also...

Use GL5 in the pumpkings front and rear. Gl5 not made for Transmission /Transfer Case and GL4 is not approved for the pumkins...

I did the research on this five yrs or so and have lead this effort on getting the right gear lube for our jeeps.... GL4 Napa or the AMSOIL MTF is the way to go...


HERE IS SOME OF THE INFO I WROTE A FEW YEARS AGO...
Here is a POST from me a few years ago.... I just copied and pasted here so hope nobody minds. YOU WILL FIND NOTHING BUT GL5 GEAR LUBE ON THE STORE SHELVES, NOTHING BUT.... The GL5 GEAR LUBE is the wrong fluid for old JEEP CJ Manual Transmissions and Transfer Cases, can also cause the SYNCROS to start rattle/noise and not work well or shift well. GL5 HAS THE WRONG.... LUBRICATION PROPERTIES.... AND.... IT IS CORROSIVE TO YELLOW METALS USED IN MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS. Some have posted, many posted, they could hardly shift after some time. Changed to GL4 and got better and quieter. I have done this dozens of times with great results.

So Please copy this to your hard drive and spread the word. This could stop a lot of JEEP MANUAL TRANS FROM FAILURE AND REBUILD BEFORE THEIR TIME. TRY IT YOU WILL SEE.................

the Napa GL4 installed and very pleased with the correction of operation and is getting even better over time…. Almost no syncro rattle now

THE AMSOIL MARINE GEAR LUBE CAN ALSO BE USED FOR......... GL4 GEAR LUBE, it meets the GL4 spec, it can absorb more water before oil failure. SO... for those of you that play in the water alot that may be a good choice.


This info has been posted lots….. and many times on the forums. MOST of the Jeep Field Service Manuals say use GL4….. the only place Jeep messed it up was 1982 they said GL5 and had INDUSTRY RECALL ON ALL MODELS and changed the gear lubes and transmissions left and right…. Or very often.

The Amsoil White paper on gear lubes is a very good read.

The Novak Web site does have a little blurb on gear lubes/trans and its very confusing, not well written, and its leading many down the wrong path. I wish Novak would rewrite and update their info.

Gl4 and GL5 are not the same and not interchangeable…….. their applications are different…. Their properties are different….


It your syncors rattling. The gear lube on the shelves is GL5 and is a product made for the pumpkins of these big large towing capacity tow rigs. The GL5 has the wrong lubrication properties and is corrosive to the yellow metals in manual transmisisons. All the BorgWarner Transmissions in the older Jeeps should use Gear Lube.

The RIGHT GEAR LUBE is GL4...... GL4...... GL4.... Napa Sells it, call them and ask them to order you 1-2 gallons and it’s like $30 a gallon….. when I first suggested Napa it was $15/gal now the price has almost doubled.

IN my case……Took out GL5 and put in Napa’s Gl4……You will also find After 50 to 100 miles it will start shifting better and should start to get quite. My T18 did the same thing after I put the Gear Lube from the shelf.... it was GL5 and started shifting harder the the syncros starting rattle. Now almost silent and shift much better and its 32 years old. I then put in the AMSOIL MTF and it got even better, much better, I will not use anything but the AMSOIL MTF it was a BIG improvement over the GL4. My BUDs TJ trans was failing with 230k miles and we put the AMOIL MTF in and it almost fixed all his issues... Changed twice and still running and that was 30k miles ago.... he is sold too.



Bromgarrds Farm Stores, IA, NE, Co, Midwest area also have a GL4 gear lube. Sell 2.5 gal container for like $27.


I have posted this up many times, many folks amazed with results. Frankly I am SHOCKED another fluid bad for our Little Jeeps ALL OVER THE SHELVES. I HAVE LOOKED YOU WILL ONLY FIND GL5 ON THE SHELVES. Good for your pumkins but not for the trans/transfer. Also add a magnet to both drain plugs to catch the metal particle. I also took a "stick magnet" and rubbed the bottom of trans/trans and got more out that way.

NAPA
SAE 85w90 Gear Oil GL4 (also meets GL3)
Part #SL24239
Mfg By Sta-Lube, sibisdary of CRC Industries
Bar Code 72213-24239
$30/gallon, phone order take 1-2 days to arrive, then pick it up, easy



USE Amsoil MTF Syncromesh GL4
tops in performance and lower in cost that most. $8-10/quart.





PS
Use GL5 Gear Lube in your Pumpkins and follow any recommendations for limited slip or locker additives.






APPLICATIONS For GL4 and Amsoil MTF Gear Lube their GL4
Recommended for automotive and light-truck applications that require synchromesh Transmission fluid. Applications include manual transmissions and transaxles such as New Venture NV T350, NV 1500, NV 2550, NV 3500, NV 3550, NV 5600, and Tremec T-4 , T-5 , T-18 , T56, T-176 , TKO500, TKO600, TR 3450 and TR 3550. Replaces MTF-94 fluid for Land Rover, MG, and Mini Cooper. Replaces Honda Genuine MTF fluid for manual transaxles and Texaco MTX fluid. Not for use in engines, hypoid rear axles, limited-slip or wet clutch applications.




JEEP T5s use gear lube
(T5 from 1985 to 1991 use GL4 Gear Lube)

BUT
Mustang & so called world class T5 use ATF.....Dexron III / Mercon, Mercon V use.....ATF.......



Another supplier of GL4 found by another CJ Forum Member,
http://www.smittysinc.net/GearOil-GL4.htm
800.256.7575