Diff Wagoneer/Scout Axles and 33s

[aglinks]

I am working on my axle build (shoutout to @coldair for sourcing my front axle) and have most of the parts (see the list below for the plan). My concern is the lift, width, and tire size looking funny. Is anyone running 60" axles on 33x10.50's? I would switch to 35s but I don't want to cut my tub for clearance and I don't want to lift higher than it currently is.

- Dave's Customs Unlimited Full Width Kit and bumper
- '76 Scout Rear Dana 44 , Yukon DuraGrip 4.27:1
- '75 Wagoneer Front Dana 44, ARB 4.27:1
- BDS 4" Suspension Lift with YJ Front Springs
- Tie Rod Flip Kit to clear diff cover
- Xenon 5" flares
- Stock backspacing on the wheels

Thoughts and pictures would be appreciated!

 

[aglinks]

Progress update:

Both axles are assembled. Yukon Duragrip and 4.27s in the rear, ARB and 4.27s in the front.

Scout stub shafts are installed with new u-joints.

New steering box and M.O.R.E mount are mocked up (you will note in the picture that one bolt is missing. That hole doesn't line up so I need to do some work with a carbide bit).

All parts have arrived and I am chipping away at it bit by bit. I will continue to post pictures and can post a complete parts list at the end if anyone is interested.

 

[aglinks]

Axles are in but I have an issue. Both new pinion seals are leaking like crazy. I used Motive seals that came with my install kits, cleaned the yokes with scotchbrite, and greased the seals before I installed the yokes. What did I do wrong?

 

[aglinks]

Now that the swap is done (just waiting on backordered fender flares) I wanted to write up a summary of what I did for anyone that may be interested in doing the same thing. I know my approach wasnt the "right" way to do it, but it was easy and the jeep drives SO GOOD! So, lets get started.

The axles:

Front Axle is a 1975 Wagoneer Dana 44 . I went with Motive 4.27 gears, ARB air locker, International Scout stub shafts, and CJ outers. You will note in my pictures that I painted the knuckles chevy orange. That automatically makes them Reid knuckles, right? lol. Now I know I am going to get some hate for using CJ outers instead of stronger Ford outers, but whatever. My thought is that running weaker hubs will act as a fuse, they are cheap and easy to replace, and if I break one, I can still drive home in 3 wheel drive.



Rear Axle is a 1976 International Scout Dana 44. I scored a brand new Yukon Duragrip with bearings on Facebook Marketplace for $200. Again I went with Motive 4.27 gears and a Motive install kit. The breaks were in great shape but I went ahead and replaced the wheel cylinders to avoid any future leaks. I re-used my CJ parking brake cables and they work perfectly.



Axle Swap Kits came from RuffStuff. I used their "simple swap kits."

Suspension:

I worked with WFO Concepts to spec out my suspension and steering and cannot recommend them enough. Trevor was AWESOME to work with. I went with shackle reversal, BDS 3.5" YJ springs, and 4" shackles. I set my shackle angle to 6 degrees and absolutely zero noticeable brake dive. Honestly my 2020 4Runner has more nose dive.



Steering:

Since I am using the CJ knuckles, I reamed them for top down GM 1 ton TRE's and used WFO's Inverted T kit. I also used M.O.R.E's steering box mount that moves the box an inch forward. Also, my factory box and shaft were worn the heck out. I replaced them with a Redhead steering box and a Borgeson steering shaft.



Thoughts:

This thing drives like never before. 80MPH on the freeway one handed. The nose sits a little high for my liking but I am hoping the front springs settle. My brand new pinion seals leak like crazy so I ordered some emery cloth and new seals. I will polish the yokes and re-install and hope for the best. Once my flares from Xenon come in, I think it will look amazing. If anyone wants a parts list, I can totally post that too!

 

[NP435]

Get some speedy sleeves and Indian Head Shellac, the parts store will tell you what to measure before ordering parts.

 

[aglinks]

Just providing a quick update after 6 or so months of use. The jeep still drives amazing and flexes way better off-road. I installed the Xenon flares but thought they looked pretty silly with 33s so I ended up going back to the stock flares. I think the jeep looks great with the wider axles and am so happy I did this swap! My only complaint is that the front is still higher than the back. I will work with BDS and WFO to get a spring/shackle combo that works better. Here is a picture of how the jeep sits now (yes, I know I need to re-spool my winch)!

 

[billyballer]

Progress update:

Both axles are assembled. Yukon Duragrip and 4.27s in the rear, ARB and 4.27s in the front.

Scout stub shafts are installed with new u-joints.

New steering box and M.O.R.E mount are mocked up (you will note in the picture that one bolt is missing. That hole doesn't line up so I need to do some work with a carbide bit).

All parts have arrived and I am chipping away at it bit by bit. I will continue to post pictures and can post a complete parts list at the end if anyone is interested.

would love a complete parts list with links or part numbers if possible?
Which pitman arm did you end up using?
I'm in the process of sorting out my Scout Dana 44 that is currently in my jeep but have a FSJ dana 44 front that I'm going to build in my off time since I have it on hand and it has better built in castor. I'm running/want to run a very similar setup. Spring under with RE 4.5" lift, 33.x10.5 tires, 4.10 gears, and hope to use my CJ outers to keep the brakes simple.

 

[aglinks]

would love a complete parts list with links or part numbers if possible?
Which pitman arm did you end up using?
I'm in the process of sorting out my Scout Dana 44 that is currently in my jeep but have a FSJ dana 44 front that I'm going to build in my off time since I have it on hand and it has better built in castor. I'm running/want to run a very similar setup. Spring under with RE 4.5" lift, 33.x10.5 tires, 4.10 gears, and hope to use my CJ outers to keep the brakes simple.

I kept a spreadsheet with part numbers and links. I will get that posted in the next few days!

 

[aglinks]

Dana 44 Swap Parts
Front
Part	Quantity	Link or Part Number
Locker	1	https://www.desertrat.com/i-23365435-arb-air-locker-dana-44-30-spline-3-92-up.html#!
Gear Set	1	https://www.4wheelparts.com/p/motiv...atio-ring-and-pinion-d44-427/_/R-GGNW-D44-427
Gear Install Kit	1	https://www.summitracing.com/parts/mgr-ra28lrmkt/make/jeep/model/wagoneer/year/1975
Ball Joints	2	https://www.summitracing.com/parts/...dYrMqP-5d-zyP_Y12e5tKTaOzl1CrRqcaAln4EALw_wcB
Axle Swap Kit	1	https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/D44FSS.html
Leaf Springs	2	https://bds-suspension.com/product-display?sr=004351
Stub Shafts	2	https://www.summitracing.com/parts/aly-10128/make/international/model/scout-ii/year/1975
Rear
Yukon DuraGrip	1	https://www.summitracing.com/parts/yga-26027
Gear Set	1	https://www.4wheelparts.com/p/motiv...atio-ring-and-pinion-d44-427/_/R-GGNW-D44-427
Gear Install Kit	1	https://www.jegs.com/i/Motive-Gear/683/D44IK/10002/-1
Axle Swap Kit	1	https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/D44SS.html
Pinion Bearings	1	https://www.4wheelparts.com/p/dana-spicer-outer-pinion-bearing-kit-706030x/_/R-FSGR-706030X https://www.4wheelparts.com/p/dana-spicer-inner-pinion-bearing-kit-706031x/_/R-FSGR-706031X
Steering and Suspension - Anything without a link is from https://www.wfoconcepts.com/
Steering Box	1	https://www.redheadsteeringgears.com/shop?year=1983&make=Jeep&model=CJ-7&options=24
Steering Shaft	1	https://www.quadratec.com/products/56113_910.htm
Jeep CJ 76'-86' Shackle Reversal Front Drop Box, Full Width 31.5" Spring Width, 2.5" Springs	1	WFO FBD-CJ-315
Jeep CJ Outboard Shackle Hanger Mount KIT, for 31.5" Springs	1	WFO SH-CJ-315-KIT
4" shackle kit with 9/16" holes (4 shackles)	1	WFO 6104-9-KIT
Bolts	4	9/16" Bolt Kit G8 - 4.5"
Full High Steer Inverted T Kit, 1.5" DOM w/ Weld In Bungs & Tierod/Draglink Ends, NO PITMAN ARM	1	WFO IT-15-KIT
M.O.R.E Steering Box Bracket (1.5" forward)	1	SB7686-1
YJ Large Leaf Spring Bushing Kit w/ 9/16" Sleeve, (4 bushings & 2 sleeves)	4	WFO 4200-9
Flat Adjustable Pitman Arm that has been reamed out to customer's measurements Draglink taper, bottom up, 5.25" long hole to hole	1	PM536FPA - REAMED

Hopefully this is easy enough to follow. If you have any questions, let me know. It all went together great and drives amazingly. I know everyone says to NOT use the CJ outers, but I did an it works well for me.

 

[billyballer]

Thanks for the detailed parts break down.
After lots of reading and thinking it over I may end up keeping my scout knuckles and running them on the Wagoneer axle even after I build it and using a Y Link (might also be called inverted T) style steering setup.
I'll test it out on the scout axle currently in my jeep in the coming months. Going to be doing a new power steering box very soon (trying the H1 upgrade so we'll see how that goes, a little nervous about the quicker ratio) and bought all the components for the Y link steering already. This will move the drag link engagement point back (relatively speaking) on the knuckle. So instead of attaching way out at the front which is around 9+ inches from center hole to ball joint center hole, it will be pushing at the tie rod attachment point on the knuckle which I think is closer to 7.5 inches center to center. My pitman arm is about 6 3/4" center to center so this should give me a big improvement in turning radius, though still probably not as great as stock CJ components. I think a Wagoneer pitman arm is 7" center to center so I may add that as well.
The nice thing about the scout knuckles I'm noticing is even with my spring under 4.5" lift the tie rod angle is very minimal. Like almost flat. If I can keep that and make sure there is no draglink/tierod interference I think I'll be good. And no messing with brakes/hubs/spindles etc.
If not I'll build the CJ7 knuckles to mount on the Dana 44 and do crossover steering. I know crossover is the superior design but I'll see how the Y Link feels.

 

[aglinks]

My inverted T steering feels amazing. I have zero complaints!

 

[billyballer]

My inverted T steering feels amazing. I have zero complaints!

That's encouraging to hear!

 

[aglinks]

@Nikwho helped me out with his awesome welding skills! We welded the WFO spring hanger to the frame and added a piece of rectangular tubing to box the end of the frame. I still need to put the winch line back on and paint everything, but its too friggin' cold outside.

 

[aglinks]

Summit Racing brand winch line is on! My old warn line had a few bad spots that I didn’t trust. I went with 100’ of 3/8” cable and a new hook for about $57.

 

[Belizean]

Not to bad a price

 

[aglinks]

Not to bad a price

It was like 1/3 the price of Warn replacement parts. I doubt Warn steel cable technology is that much better lol

 

[gert]

Nice welding lookin good


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[aglinks]

I might need to change the name of this thread...it is on 35s now.

 

[KRUPP]

Turned out nice! Great info too.
I'm starting a Wagoneer front Dana 44 swap right now. I'm gonna shorten the long tube 4" though, to better match the width of my rear Scout II D44.
I also like the idea of keeping everything from the CJ knuckles out - especially since mine has all new parts on the recently-rebuilt Dana 30 .

 

[buzz54]

I might need to change the name of this thread...it is on 35s now.

@aglinks what wheel size and backspacing are you using and do your wheels hit the springs before maxing out your steering on those 35s? I'm asking because I have the exact same axle setup but on 17x8.5 wheels with 4.5" backspacing and it's hitting the springs early reducing my turning radius. I'm not going to run wheel spacers so I'm going to change my wheels so that I can get full turning radius and want to hear back from someone that is running a similar setup. Thanks for any input!

 

[KRUPP]

Buzz,
I'll chime in on my experience.

I chopped the long tube of a '72 Wagoneer Dana 44 (60.75" width) about 4.25", ran CJ knuckles/everything else CJ, flipped the tie-rod and drag link to the top of the arms, a new inner axle on the long side and new Scout II stub axles. 4.5" Rubicon Express springs and my shackles are still up front.

I did end up adding 1" wheel spacers (from Titan) up front to better match the width of my rear Scout II D44.

The widths are now 58.5" rear and the same 58.5" for front.

I'm running 35s on 10" wide wheels with 4" backspacing. I've wheeled and flexed things pretty good, and have no tire rubbing issues up front and I haven't messed with the "stops" at all.