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Misc Warn manual hubs disengaging

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Misc Warn manual hubs disengaging
D

Dirt ball

Jeeper
Posts
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Location
Mt Forest, MI, USA
Vehicle(s)
77 CJ5, 304, 3 speed
Hey all, my 77 CJ5 . Manual Locking hubs 6 bolt, Warn M195A - I have used 4wd and manual hubs many times before, but new to the CJ. was out on Silver Lake Sand Dunes for a few days, on my last day I peaked one of the bigger dunes and just coming back up a smaller hill. My RF hub disengaged. would not reengage. noisy in 4wd with hub in locked position, but not with the hub unlocked. sounds like splines not seated. back home, I expected to find the internals of the hub to be in pieces. Nope. took every thing apart, cleaned and inspected, No debris, no issues found. reassembled the hub, still will not engage. the dial still spins easy as it should. took it back apart, reassembled it in the engaged position and tried it again. now was staying locked. I figured I would just leave that hub in the locked position at all times. did some more wheeling and it disengaged again. front hub bearings adjusted properly, no cracks, chips, damage of any sort found to the splines or locking mechanism. everything slides easy with no issues working all of the splines individually. What am I missing?
 
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Dirt ball said:
Hey all, my 77 CJ5. Manual Locking hubs 6 bolt, Warn M195A - I have used 4wd and manual hubs many times before, but new to the CJ. was out on Silver Lake Sand Dunes for a few days, on my last day I peaked one of the bigger dunes and just coming back up a smaller hill. My RF hub disengaged. would not reengage. noisy in 4wd with hub in locked position, but not with the hub unlocked. sounds like splines not seated. back home, I expected to find the internals of the hub to be in pieces. Nope. took every thing apart, cleaned and inspected, No debris, no issues found. reassembled the hub, still will not engage. the dial still spins easy as it should. took it back apart, reassembled it in the engaged position and tried it again. now was staying locked. I figured I would just leave that hub in the locked position at all times. did some more wheeling and it disengaged again. front hub bearings adjusted properly, no cracks, chips, damage of any sort found to the splines or locking mechanism. everything slides easy with no issues working all of the splines individually. What am I missing?
Click to expand...

This is weird. I have never seen heard of this. This is considered a failsafe hub.
Are you ok with taking the outside spring loaded engage mechanism and moving the entire assembly from right to left? It's only a few allen cap screws but will quickly eliminate what component is the problem.
One thing I'm not clear on, on the initial disengagement does the hub still show engaged?
I have seen a hub with worn master splines that due to the slop and the angle of wear it overrode the spring pressure and pushed the locking mechanism up, disengage but then automatically reengaged. It made the wheel grab and clunked.
One more question, do have any traction control on the front? Locker? Limited slip?

Keep us updated.
 
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Back in the '70's when I first got my '77 CJ5 I mentioned to my automotive mentor that it came equipped with Warn hubs. He said "You'd better replace 'em then" it wasn't 'till years later it dawned on me the intended pun.
 
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CJ said:
This is weird. I have never seen heard of this. This is considered a failsafe hub.
Are you ok with taking the outside spring loaded engage mechanism and moving the entire assembly from right to left? It's only a few allen cap screws but will quickly eliminate what component is the problem.
One thing I'm not clear on, on the initial disengagement does the hub still show engaged?
I have seen a hub with worn master splines that due to the slop and the angle of wear it overrode the spring pressure and pushed the locking mechanism up, disengage but then automatically reengaged. It made the wheel grab and clunked.
One more question, do have any traction control on the front? Locker? Limited slip?

Keep us updated.
Click to expand...

CJ said:
This is weird. I have never seen heard of this. This is considered a failsafe hub.
Are you ok with taking the outside spring loaded engage mechanism and moving the entire assembly from right to left? It's only a few allen cap screws but will quickly eliminate what component is the problem.
One thing I'm not clear on, on the initial disengagement does the hub still show engaged?
I have seen a hub with worn master splines that due to the slop and the angle of wear it overrode the spring pressure and pushed the locking mechanism up, disengage but then automatically reengaged. It made the wheel grab and clunked.
One more question, do have any traction control on the front? Locker? Limited slip?

Keep us updated.
Click to expand...
Cj is basically stock 77 drivetrain. When the disengagement occurs, the hub stays in the 4x4 position. The situation you described pushing the locking mechanism up sounds like what may be happening with mine. But instead of re-engaging it rides and makes noise. Like the splines aren't lined up. Will try swapping side to side and see if issue follows.
 
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Dirt ball said:
Cj is basically stock 77 drivetrain. When the disengagement occurs, the hub stays in the 4x4 position. The situation you described pushing the locking mechanism up sounds like what may be happening with mine. But instead of re-engaging it rides and makes noise. Like the splines aren't lined up. Will try swapping side to side and see if issue follows.
Click to expand...
Please keep us updated when you swap R - L. I really want to know what is the problem.
 
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so i swapped the engagement portion of the hubs from to the opposite sides and the issue stayed on the right side. i am going to swap the rest of the hub components and see if the issue stays on the r.s. but i figure since i have them off i would clean up the old tired grease that is on the left side, since i already did the right.
looks like the left side had some water intrusion and created some rust staining.
looking at the components, specifically the part that attaches onto the axle itself, it looks like the plastic(??) centering piece is warn(haha) on the r.s. if it is worn and not keeping the axle stub centered, would cause misalignment when trying to engage. Thoughts?

1000007272.webp

1000007273.webp

1000007279.webp

1000007276.webp
 
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Those are pretty crusty for sure.
 
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CJ said:
Well then I hate to say it is the the darn hub is the problem. I don't know how though?
Click to expand...
like i said. i'm going to get them both cleaned up. i really do think it may be that plastic centering ring located on the axle spline portion. not keeping the tip of the axle properly centered. and yes, i checked for bunding u-joint for the axle.
not giving up yet.
 
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so i cleaned everything up, swapped the entire locking assembly components and from both sides. both seem to work, swapped them back and the hub that started on the rf still doesn't work on the right side. (my original problem child). so now they are off again, i am painting and will be putting back on. swapped sides of coarse.
 
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