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I have participated in the "Wrangler is not a Jeep" arguement, occasionally I even go one step further to include the CJ7 . A real Jeep has a hump in the door. ....... But honestly it's all part of an inner circle joke with me. I honestly felt bad yesterday. At a gas station there was a nice shinny black Jeep with a hard top and big tires. The guy was obviously mighty proud of his Jeep, so I said, "Nice Chrysler". You'd have thought I'd hit the poor man in the face with a board. I was instantly ashamed and laughed it off saying, "Sorry it's just a silly CJ thing." He complinented my Jeep and drove on. I don't think I'll ever do that again. But why? Lots of people say , "Nice Honda" or 'Nice Harley-Davidson", I don't think I would feel bad if someone said , "Nice AMC." or "Nice Kaiser" or "Nice Willys or universal or ford", for that matter.... I think it's all in fun, but others take it far to seriously for my taste.
No I don't think it's like that at all. The TJ crowd have some awsome rigs they have built.Like I tell the classic car guy with the camero that sticks his nose in the air at other vehicle"wouldn't it be great if we all owned cameros".That usually ends the conversation.Either your a car guy or your not.I like all types of vehicles and admire someone that takes care of them regardless of what it is. mike
The YJ Wrangler does share "lineage"... I have a YJ body on my CJ frame with a CJ hood/fenders, hard and softtop. The Tailgate and dash are about the only difference between the two tubs. They are so much the same, that most parts catalogs list the CJ7 and YJ together. Eventually, they did completely morph into a whole new vehicle. I was merely stating my opinion.
Crickets, really. You think I sit and wait for replies?
If you think that the wrangler shares lineage then no I didn't state your point. The wrangler was being designed for 4 years while the Jeep was still in production. Just because some parts are interchangeable doesn't make them the same vehicle. I can put a chevy 350 in a Jeep, does that make it a chevy? Your wrangler body had to be modified to fit your Jeep frame because the wrangler not only had a diff. body but a different frame too. Along with the drivetrain, axles, interior, and roof. Hence the new name because it's a new model. How many vehicle do you know of that get completely revamped including the model name and number, and it's still considered the same vehicle?
I can't say that this is just my opinion, because it's historical fact. Would you like some sources of proof?
ps: wiki is about as accurate as the weatherman on many things.
Suz - That's a pretty accurate analogy.
Mike - You bring up a good point when you say "car guys". Nobody goes around saying "nice Dodge" or "awesome chevy". They are model specific like "nice charger" or "awesome camero". So to be vehicle specific "nice Jeep" would indicate a CJ/M.
cjake7 - No not at all. That's why it is so important to be historically accurate and not allow this American icon and it's history fade or be portrayed wrongly. Just look at some of these parts websites that think a Jeep CJ* is a wrangler. It's because they either don't know any better or they don't care enough because their only concern with getting your money.
One thing a lot of folks don't get is the term "real Jeep". Right away they feel emasculated and left out of something they thought they were part of. Nowadays, for some misguided reason, a lot of people think a Jeep is any vehicle with a Jeep emblem on it, mostly young. Ignorant that "the Jeep" ever existed. So to refer to the actual Jeep vehicle you say "real" Jeep to be specific that you mean the Jeep model (M or CJ). That's all that is meant by "real Jeep".
So, back with my own observation. Jeeps stopped being Jeeps to me when they started making the ugly square ones. I just refer to Jeeps as round-eyed or square-eyed. Ducking & running after that remark...
It kills me how serious people are... Wow. I don't enjoy frivolous arguments. Just to clarify, I said the YJ & CJ7 TUBS are virtually the same. I by no means said they were the same vehicle. Wow... Didn't mean to offend. You are correct, the body mounts had to be modified. That's about it.
......I'm 35. So that puts me in the middle of the jeep "line". I like all Jeeps and consider them the same. They all have the potential to be capable of the exact same thing. To me a jeep whether it's a CJ or a wrangler consists of a tub, no doors, no roof and has the name jeep. Wranglers are just newer with more comforts. It like a old Camaro and a new Camaro. Totally different cars yet share a great namesake. Although I feel way better in my CJ pulling up to a JK. Cause I know, and the JK owner knows I'm cooler. My nose points a little higher and the chip on my shoulder is a bit bigger. We all know it takes a special kind if person to put so much effort into an old Jeep and I think MOST jeep owners know that too. But don't get me started in the chicks driving their JK's and they look at me like a scumbag when I wave. They are excluded from my previous statements.
Yep, there is something about a Jeep, without a hump in the door that says "Car" to me. Then when the square door cars ..... sorry jeeps started getting soft little dash boards and arm rests in the hard door panels I knew the spirit of the Jeep was gone forever..... Hey which seem seems the most honest, Ronald Reagan driving his warn dirty dented up CJ6 around his ranch wearing his old sweaty cowboy hat or Arnold S. in his pimped out Hummer.
Hey, I mostly kid you all, but please keep in mind, this isn't a Jeep board, it's a CJ board. There simply HAS to be some biased opinions around here.
......I'm 35. So that puts me in the middle of the jeep "line". I like all Jeeps and consider them the same. They all have the potential to be capable of the exact same thing. To me a jeep whether it's a CJ or a wrangler consists of a tub, no doors, no roof and has the name jeep. Wranglers are just newer with more comforts. It like a old Camaro and a new Camaro. Totally different cars yet share a great namesake. Although I feel way better in my CJ pulling up to a JK. Cause I know, and the JK owner knows I'm cooler. My nose points a little higher and the chip on my shoulder is a bit bigger. We all know it takes a special kind if person to put so much effort into an old Jeep and I think MOST jeep owners know that too. But don't get me started in the chicks driving their JK's and they look at me like a scumbag when I wave. They are excluded from my previous statements.
Well, for those who think a Jeep and a wrangler are one and the same, answer this simple question: why did they give it a new name and series designation if it was the same model?
From 1941 till 1986 the military (M) or the civilian (C) version had many changes over their lifespan, only changing the version number, but not once during any of the owning companies tenure did they change the model name or series designation. Including the same company who designed the Wrangler YJ. It's been referred to as the Mighty Jeep, the Universal Jeep, and the Agri Jeep, a Willys Jeep or a Kaiser Jeep; but the constant has always been "the Jeep".
I bought my 66 as a hobby... I like old things, they are simple and refreshing compare to our busy life + I'd rather be proud because its on the road and running right with my hand dirty than pay $$$$ to buy it that way. I also like not having any carpet so I don't have to worry about rain getting in there. But that's just me, and I don't have anything against the newer ones.
That said, I wave at every Jeep I see, although sometime its hard to see them wave back with the tinted glass and the air con on .
Well, for those who think a Jeep and a wrangler are one and the same, answer this simple question: why did they give it a new name and series designation if it was the same model?
From 1941 till 1986 the military (M) or the civilian (C) version had many changes over their lifespan, only changing the version number, but not once during any of the owning companies tenure did they change the model name or series designation. Including the same company who designed the Wrangler YJ. It's been referred to as the Mighty Jeep, the Universal Jeep, and the AgriJeep , a Willys Jeep or a Kaiser Jeep; but the constant has always been "the Jeep".
At the time AMC (a large portion owned by Chrysler by that time) started design work on the YJ, circa '83 /'84,knowing that AM General (AMC's sister company) would be making the new HMMWV, to replace the aging "M" Jeeps, they (AMC) with heavy Chrysler influence, decided to redesign the Jeep, to make more like a regular civilian vehicle. Hence, the new Model Letter designation. I never meant to imply that a YJ is a "real" Jeep. That's like saying an H2 is a "real" Humvee...
Sure it's nostalgia, but it's also factual history that shouldn't be forgotten or twisted into something people would like it to be. And as a Jeep fan for 40+ years I will do my part to not let this piece of American history, heck worldwide history be forgotten.
Chrysler didn't buy AMC till Aug 1987. AMC did have a plant that it leased out to help build some chrysler cars but I forget the details exactly. But Chrysler didn't own any part of AMC nor did they provide any "influence".
From the book ”Jeep Wrangler” by Robert Ackerson- Building upon AMC’s characterization of the Wrangler as “new from the ground up”, Francois A. Castaing, AMC Vice President of Product Engineering, reported that the “Jeep Wrangler combines a classic open air design with state of the art four wheel drive engineering, including “shift on the fly” capability and a tuned, smooth ride suspension. This new generation of small sport utility vehicles will offer very comfortable and enjoyable on-highway driving and superb of-road capability.”
Outwardly resembling the Jeep CJ7 , the Wrangler, which was formally announced on May 13, 1986, was based on a new set of design parameters. “The product philosophy behind the two vehicles” Castaing explained, “is completely different”.
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"American Motors will end production early next year of the venerable Jeep CJ-direct descendent of the workhorse of World War II" is how the announcement went. More than 1.5 million CJ models had been sold since it all started back in 1945. "Completion of the CJ production will signal an end of a very important era in Jeep history," the news release continued. The CJ7 was built alongside the CJ5 . January 1986 brought the finale of the CJ7 and the birth of the Wrangler that spring, which sort of resembled the CJ7 , but its true inspiration was the Cherokee (because passenger cars-particularly their handling and ride quality-were all the rage)." - FOURWHEELER Network, Jp magazine 2007
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"The quarter-ton Jeep earned a worldwide reputation for ruggedness and versatility in wartime. That tradition has continued for more than four decades that the CJ has been sold to the public. Completion of the CJ production will signal an end of a very important era in Jeep history". - Joseph Cappy, AMC VP of Production- 29 november 1985
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The Wrangler went on sale May 13, 1986, as a 1987 model. It didn’t look al that radical in appearance. At first glance it seemed like nothing more than a CJ7 with a bent grille and rectangular headlights. It was, however, a whole new animal. The Wrangler was certainly more civilized. It’s suspension design was borrowed from the Cherokee, and the stance was both low and wide. Front and rear axles from the Cherokee gave Wrangler the widest track in it’s class. Wrangler also got Cherokee’s steering system, brakes, hydraulic clutch, wheels, tires, and shift on the fly Transfer Case . Wranglers power train was significantly upgraded. The base engine was the fuel injected 2.5 liter 4cyl. From the XJ series. The AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l cid carbureted six was optional. A styling team under the direction of Chuck Mashigan, a long time Jeep enthusiast, completely redesigned the small Jeep. Compared to the CJ7 , Wrangler was slightly wider but about an inch shorter in shorter in length. The wheelbase, at 93.4 inches, was the same as the CJ7 . Wranglers came standard with half metal doors, a soft top (removable, not convertible like CJ’s or despite what AMC’s president had predicted), and a one piece swing away tailgate that also served as a spare tire carrier. The instrument panel was all new and greatly improved over the CJ series. Perhaps in an effort to divorce it from the CJ line, wrangler didn’t offer a Renegade package. The Jeep CJ series was retired, a victim of changing times and a glut of personal injury lawsuits resulting from rollover accidents. No matter- AMC made sure the CJ marched off into history in style. A small brochure was produced touting the history and heritage of the Jeep, and offering buyers “The Last of The Jeep CJ’s” –a special Collectors Edition commemorating the end of CJ production. – an excerpt from “The Story of The Jeep” –Patrick Foster : page 200-201
I stand corrected, it was Renault that had a huge share of AMC... Chrysler bought Renault's share, and then purchased the rest later. I was recalling from memory, thanks.
Arent you glad you asked? 
Hey which seem seems the most honest, Ronald Reagan driving his warn dirty dented up 
.