'78 CJ5 w/360 Consistent 210* when it's HOT (for Oregon) is this OK

[Turbogus]

Hi gang, Sorry to re~hash this but I saw another post and the gears in my head started their summertime creaking. I've posted more than a few times about the updates to 'Black Betty'('78 CJ5 ), she's got a 360 out of a Waggy, 3 row downtube radiator, fan shroud, electric fan, and a flowkooler water pump. At highway speeds in the summertime she can peak at about 210* according to my mechanical temp gauge and on one occasion last year as high as 220* and at that time the idiot gauge was fully hot! This 210* has been consistent during summer since I bought her and even before I added the winch (potentially inhibiting airflow) remining at 210*. Now when I see other overheatsing threads mentioning 210* being normal, they're referring to XJ's and their ilk, but what about old school CJ's? Do I need to do further mods? Thanks and a lift of the lynch lid for your responses.

 

[gert]

Most new vehicles run hotter thermostats for emissions purposes, looks like you might have a high temp stat in yours as well, you can toss it in a pan of water with a thermomoter to see when it opens to make sure you dont have a cooling problem. I like stats in the 160-180 range

 

[Turbogus]

I like 'em at those temps too, but I'm running a 180* stat as it is.

 

[gert]

you should not be more than 190 degrees with that stat, it sounds like you have the right combo, maybe the fan dosent pull enough air? not an aluminum radiator?

 

[tarry99]

Hi gang, Sorry to re~hash this but I saw another post and the gears in my head started their summertime creaking. I've posted more than a few times about the updates to 'Black Betty'('78 CJ5 ), she's got a 360 out of a Waggy, 3 row downtube radiator, fan shroud, electric fan, and a flowkooler water pump. At highway speeds in the summertime she can peak at about 210* according to my mechanical temp gauge and on one occasion last year as high as 220* and at that time the idiot gauge was fully hot! This 210* has been consistent during summer since I bought her and even before I added the winch (potentially inhibiting airflow) remining at 210*. Now when I see other overheatsing threads mentioning 210* being normal, they're referring to XJ's and their ilk, but what about old school CJ's? Do I need to do further mods? Thanks and a lift of the lynch lid for your responses.

Your right Jeeps have a small opening to allow air in , and you have a winch also.........Just need to get adequate air to the Radiator........210 at highway speeds is high............make sure your shroud is close enough and your electric fan is doing the job? Sometimes if your electric fan is not effective enough it will actually hurt the cooling. Point is I've seen great fans and poor fans lots of choices.........having said that if you have the mechanical belt driven fan blade I have also seen those to be better or worst depending on blades and pitch................Last I have seen great results from the New aluminum radiators...........it is just one of those things you may have to keep messing with until your happy.

 

[Turbogus]

you should not be more than 190 degrees with that stat, it sounds like you have the right combo, maybe the fan dosent pull enough air? not an aluminum radiator?

Thanks for your response
However the fan is inconsequential at highway speeds compared to idling/slow speeds. That being said the same hgigh temps were present even before I added the winch.

 

[Turbogus]

Your right Jeeps have a small opening to allow air in , and you have a winch also.........Just need to get adequate air to the Radiator........210 at highway speeds is high................Last I have seen great results from the New aluminum radiators...........it is just one of those things you may have to keep messing with until your happy.

'Black Betty'



was running 210* in the summer even before I added the winch, at least it's consistent. On one very hot summer day last year (98* +) she did get up to 220* ~but never blew or knocked or other anomolies. I've read an article in the recent Four Wheeler magazine quoting that the old school brass and copper (like the three row I have) are nomally more efficent at dissipating heat, they did mention the new tech radiators from Flex a lite with side tank fins and a 41% improvment over brass and copper but at nearly $800 clams I want to make dam sure that it's not another case of 'snake oil' that I've experienced with other manufacturer and forum claims.

 

[tarry99]

'Black Betty'



was running 210* in the summer even before I added the winch, at least it's consistent. On one very hot summer day last year (98* +) she did get up to 220* I've read an article in the recent Four Wheeler magazine quoting that the old school brass and copper (like the three row I have) are nomally more efficent at dissipating heat, they did mention the new tech radiators from Flex a lite with side tank fins and a 41% improvment over brass and copper but at nearly $800 clams I want to make dam sure that it's not another case of 'snake oil' that I've experienced with other manufacturer and forum claims.

Turbo, we could all have a lengthy decision on Thermal Conduction or Radiation or Heat dissipation but ultimately will get back to the point that your not moving enough coolant or air through your system to adequately transfer the heat away.............that's why I mentioned the electric fan or mechanical fan blade.
Does you motor use any water? Is there a chance there is a head gasket leaking? Old engines with rust in the water jackets are the most common problem with heating concerns.
Using a product like "Water Wetter" can sometimes help.
I would not believe that an old brass radiator transfers heat as will as its aluminum counterpart......Not so!...... simply because of the heat dissipation value between the two metals.

 

[Turbogus]

Sorry if I sounded arguementative in my previous post, I just was quoting that article in Four Wheeler to demonstrate the confusion between experts and magazine editors.
The 13" fan that was in BB when I bought her

has vacuum enough to fold fast a sheet of cardboard to the front of the radiator, please excuse I've no more professional means of describing efficiency, and no leaks of coolant (since I reinstalled the intake manifold using Fel Pro last year) Now it was my (mis) understanding that the relative wind is the element that cooled the radiator while driving, rather than fan operation, however I understand that I may be wrong.
I did notice a 1/16th inch gap at the top of the radiator and the fan shroud today.

...that may be once source of the problem, I also took a closer look at the bottom of the radiator and found a gap down there as well (is this normal?)

At any rate, on a mild day like today (75-80*) BB will be running at 180-190* it's just the hottest days of summer that is concerning me.
Now on my old Steppenwolf Jeep years ago,



never overheated, despite being stationed at MCLB Barstow, CA (in the mojave desert) even during summer months.

 

[tarry99]

Sorry if I sounded arguementative in my previous post, I just was quoting that article in Four Wheeler to demonstrate the confusion between experts and magazine editors.
The 13" fan that was in BB when I bought her

has vacuum enough to fold fast a sheet of cardboard to the front of the radiator, please excuse I've no more professional means of describing efficiency, and no leaks of coolant (since I reinstalled the intake manifold using Fel Pro last year) Now it was my (mis) understanding that the relative wind is the element that cooled the radiator while driving, rather than fan operation, however I understand that I may be wrong.
I did notice a 1/16th inch gap at the top of the radiator and the fan shroud today.

...that may be once source of the problem, I also took a closer look at the bottom of the radiator and found a gap down there as well (is this normal?)

At any rate, on a mild day like today (75-80*) BB will be running at 180-190* it's just the hottest days of summer that is concerning me.
Now on my old Steppenwolf Jeep years ago,


Turbo.............no Problem..........What I see in your picture looks like you just have the "ONE" electric fan only and no Fan Blade attached to the pulley that is being driven by the fan belt? Is that correct?
It also looks like the fan blade size is much smaller than the shroud size , is that also correct?
The little gap is of no concern................but that electric fan by itself and having that shroud so far away from the blade tips does not allow for much cooling efficiency...........
If I'm looking at your pictures correctly I would be thinking of changing that fan setup over to a system that the shroud and fan are one unit and as close to the size of the radiator opening as possible.........
I'll send you some links to some good fan setups.

 

[gert]

I agree with Terry, looks like they added the fan inside the original fan shroud, to me I would put a larger electric fan on it like the Ford Tarus fan

 

[Turbogus]

When I was looking into the Ford fan upgrade I heard tell that the Contour double setup is a possible easier install as the brackets mate to the Jeep radiator the body of the shroud provides complete coverage of the core and there's more clearance for the nose of the water pump pulley. Perhaps this is the way to go once I get around to it.



but then again, it's from another forum post and not nessesarily from an expert so perhaps I'm setting myself up for another mis supposition.

 

[tarry99]

When I was looking into the Ford fan upgrade I heard tell that the Contour double setup is a possible easier install as the brackets mate to the Jeep radiator the body of the shroud provides complete coverage of the core and there's more clearance for the nose of the water pump pulley. Perhaps this is the way to go once I get around to it.



but then again, it's from another forum post and not nessesarily from an expert so perhaps I'm setting myself up for another mis supposition.

Turbo, Now your talking..........that is what i'm talking about........Of course not that particular unit but I have seen those dual fan units that work quite well............Go to Novak Adaptors web site under cooling and they have some nice fan setups.
I really think that will make all the difference in the world on your heating issue. If you make a change keep in mind most of those fans draw about 9-15 amps so wiring the circuit with a relay is the way to go.

 

[gert]

Turbo, Now your talking..........that is what i'm talking about........Of course not that particular unit but I have seen those dual fan units that work quite well............Go to Novak Adaptors web site under cooling and they have some nice fan setups.
I really think that will make all the difference in the world on your heating issue. If you make a change keep in mind most of those fans draw about 9-15 amps so wiring the circuit with a relay is the way to go.

looks much better

 

[Turbogus]

Thanks for all of your input Gert and Terry. If kazooks (money) were of no consequence I'd be glad to buy new gear from Novaks and others, but since I've just started purchasing my first home, money for the time being, is better spent elsewhere. That being said, I'll likely head to the boneyard for my setup, after all I'm not building a full on get down boogie, move in next door to ya and yer lawn is gonna die trail rig or trailer queen , just one to satisfy me.
Tomorrow there's a heat advisory for Western Oregon so I'll keep on monitoring my gauges for the time being until I can get money up for that Contour fan and FAL controller.
Prosit!

 

[tarry99]

Thanks for all of your input Gert and Terry. If kazooks (money) were of no consequence I'd be glad to buy new gear from Novaks and others, but since I've just started purchasing my first home, money for the time being, is better spent elsewhere. That being said, I'll likely head to the boneyard for my setup, after all I'm not building a full on get down boogie, move in next door to ya and yer lawn is gonna die trail rig or trailer queen , just one to satisfy me.
Tomorrow there's a heat advisory for Western Oregon so I'll keep on monitoring my gauges for the time being until I can get money up for that Contour fan and FAL controller.
Prosit!

Turbo.......no problem... we all know what budgets are (well not the Government) so yes do some research , there are several junk yard fans that fit quite well in a CJ.........I really can't believe that your current setup hasn't given you more trouble than it already has..........................keep in mind this late model computer controlled stuff in the junk yards are mostly switched via sensors that are embedded within there systems so finding one that is more simply wired would I think be your goal.
Like to hear from you again once you have a shroud / fan combination that more completely covers up that area up................Good Luck

 

[Turbogus]

In an unrelated vehicle but which also had cooling issues I used to have a '66 Ford Econoline when I lived in Toledo, OR


similar to this but the P.O. had painted it with traffic yellow paint, long lasting but fugly. I had to replace the 210 with a 240 out of a '76 Maverick. She was running hot too in the summertime, so did the extra row radiator, replaced the water pump, thermostat and hoses and still she'd get hot in the summer. From time to time I'd be on business up in Portland, OR and there was a wrecking yard that had more than a few of these old Econolines that I'd picked bumpers, a headliner and other parts. One time I spied a '67 that had a belly pan, that my '66 did not, so I snagged it and after bolting it up I found that she would have a hard time reaching operating temperture.
a side note: I bought this thing for $100 clams knowing there was a terrific knock in the bottom end, but she'd run up to 60 mph no problem. I was intending to use this van for storage of my motorcycle and spares so even if it went kaput I intended to just park it in the lot behind my apartment. By the time I got that 240 to swap I had to drive it to a friends' place that had a barn. Backing it in suddenly the knocking ceased. I pulled it into the barn and shut 'er off. Looking out the windshield I see a part laying in a puddle of oil and a trail of oil running back to the van. In the puddle I found what had been causing the knocking......
Three lobes of the CAMSHAFT had somehow worked its way past the pistons into the crankcase and the knocking was the counterbalances of the crank, knocking the broken end of the cam against the oil pan ~ that looked like the Ball Park hot dog commerial "plumps when you cook 'em" ad years ago. After plugging in the 240 I considered getting a vanity license plate........... TIMEX

 

[Turbogus]

Well, here's what $40 clams bought at the wrecking yard, it was already pulled laying in the trunk of a Merc Mystique I could only match by photos from other forums and I'm hoping that I'm not barking up the wrong tree;











The Merc this was laying in had the emission stickers missing as the entire front clip was gone so I'm hoping this is the correct unit. It's the only one available within 50 miles of this consumer desert. What do ya'll think?

 

[gert]

Measure it versus your radiator and of its close and it works then you should be good

 

[CJ]

The Contour / Mystyic fan fit perfectly. Instead of posting all of JYG's info, here is a link that still has his write-up images working. -->> CJ/YJ Electric Fans - JEEPTALK.net