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[FONT="]It’s just too hot and humid to work out in the shop today, so now is a good time to update our build thread. Besides, it’s therapeutic to put into writing, all our problems!
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[FONT="]A few years ago, the wife bought me a manual tubing bender. My main reason for wanting one was to make gentle bends in 2” exhaust pipe. I had tried a hydraulic pipe bender, but all that did was kink the pipe. The first time I used the bender was to make the exhaust on this Jeep. It worked pretty well.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Fast forward to about 2 months ago. It has become obvious that with all the off road goodies and modifications that have been put into this Jeep, it is capable of some fairly respectable off road driving. A little more than just a rear roll bar would probably be a good idea. [/FONT]
[FONT="]After a fair amount of research, I learned that 1 ½” to 1 ¾” DOM tubing is pretty much what most people are using, mostly 1 ¾”. Well the dies are around $275 each for my bender, and I bought 2” dies to do exhaust work, so what the heck! 2” DOM will be even stronger! Besides, I tend to over build things anyway.[/FONT]
[FONT="]So, off to the local steel supplier, and pick up 2 lengths of 2 x .120 DOM tubing.[/FONT]
[FONT="]I have never made anything out of tube requiring precise bends, so this should be interesting. I had found the YouTube video that was linked to in another thread and watched it several times. Finally, I think to myself, “time to try to make a roll cage”.[/FONT]
[FONT="]I decided to make a front hoop with stringers on top going to the rear roll bar. I started by making a bending gauge out of a length of 2” tube. Easy enough, right? WRONG! I am 6’2”, and 260lbs and could only bend about 15° before the bender would go no farther because it bent the 7/8” pins holding the following shoe in place. I put a longer handle on the bender to increase the leverage and only managed to pull the lag bolts holding the bender to a wooden floor, out of the floor! [/FONT]
[FONT="]RATS![/FONT]
[FONT="]Something’s wrong.[/FONT]
[FONT="]As I said, even though this is the first real use of the tool, I have probably had this bender for nearly 3 years, so the warranty is long expired. Well, maybe the manufacturer can at least trouble shoot the problem for me, and sell me what I need to get production going again.[/FONT]
[FONT="]I contacted Woodward Fab and explained my problem. They asked for some pictures, and dimensions on the bending dies. The next day, they called me back and told me that although the dies that I had were compatible with their bender, I had been sold some after market dies by the retailer that I purchased the tool from, and the radius die and the shoe were not a matched set. They told me they were sending me a new set of dies.
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[FONT="]Wow! I couldn’t believe it! Out of warranty, and they were still going to honor the warranty![/FONT]
[FONT="]A few days latter, the new dies arrived. With additional bolts securing the bender to the floor, I could envision the cage taking form. WRONG AGAIN! I got about 20° into the bend, and once again bent the pin, and pulled the bender out of the floor! I contacted Woodward Fab again. I told them what had happened, and that I did not expect them to do anything else for me. They were more than generous covering the cost of the replacement dies. I told them that it appeared the bender was just not capable of 2 x .120 DOM. The representative who was helping me said that he was determined to solve the problem, and that he was sending me a whole new machine to go with the new dies he had already sent me! WOW! :rock:
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[FONT="]A few days latter, the new parts arrived. I had decided to mount the pedestal to the concrete floor for added strength. I quickly assembled the new bender and tried to resume production of the roll cage. SUCCESS!!! I easily made my first 90° bend. I decided to make a few minor modifications to the bender to reduce stress on the retaining pins, and from then on, the machine worked great![/FONT]
[FONT="]I guess this is kind of a plug for Woodward Fab, but it is so rare nowadays to get this kind of service. All the other Woodward Fab tools that I have work great![/FONT]
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[FONT="]OK, on with production![/FONT]
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[FONT="]I had to make the front hoop in 2 pieces because my shop ceiling was not high enough to allow for the entire hoop to fit into the bender. I inserted an 8” piece of 1 ¾” DOM into the splice prior to welding.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Roof stringers and windshield cross bar.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Fitting drivers side hoop section.[/FONT]
[FONT="]The PO did some rather creative floor repair. The floor on both sides kind of slopes toward the middle like a trough. I did the best I could to calculate where the new floor will go, (hopefully next winter), and welded the mounting plates accordingly, thus the reason for all the washers.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Stringers and windshield bar set in place prior to welding.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Everything welded together, and ready for a test fit.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Unfortunately, even though the windshield cross bar was a nice snug fit during fit up and welding, weld shrinkage caused the front hoop to move together a little less than ½” . I tried using a hydraulic spreader ram to correct the problem, but even after pushing the hoop 2” beyond where it should be, it still sprung back almost all the way. I gained about 3/16”. I was able to push the hoop open to where it is supposed to be with my hands, so I am not going to worry about the little bit of tension on the mounting bolts caused by spreading it to get the bolt holes to line up.[/FONT]
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[FONT="]The frame tie in’s were fairly easy to make. The hardest part was lining up the differently angled notches necessary to make the top and bottom line up.[/FONT]
[FONT="]I bought the bushings from Morris, but the brackets were made from flat stock and welded.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Maybe tomorrow a paint job for the cage, but today, 90° and humid are not a good painting environment for the cage, or me. The AC is working great in the house, and that is where I am going to hide![/FONT]
[FONT="]A few weeks ago the roll cage got painted, and installed along with the front frame tie in’s. Not a whole lot of problems for once. The cage went in fairly straight forward.[/FONT]
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[FONT="]Last week we continued on the rear frame tie in’s for the cage. Nowhere near as easy as doing the front ones which only entailed a straight piece of tube with the appropriate notches cut in. The rear required not only a notch at the frame mounted bushing, but it was also necessary to make a bend in the tube for tire clearance then instead of notching the body end of the tube like we did on the front, I cut an angle thereby creating additional tire clearance. I scratched my head for several days on how I was going to measure the angle of the notches in the tube because there is just plain no room to work up in there. After several attempts using conventional tools, unsuccessfully, I thought I would try taking a short piece of tubing, and pushing some modeling clay into one end. Then I could push the tube against the tube it had to mate to thus forming an impression at the needed angle, measuring the angle, then making the notch. It worked great! And now I have some kindergarten clay that I can play with! [/FONT]
[FONT="]I plan on raising the Transmission and Transfer Case up a bit for additional center clearance in the future, but that will require making a new cross member and skid plate. For now, we decided to extend and reinforce the old skid plate.[/FONT]
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[FONT="]With the addition of the winch, the air flow to the radiator seems to be somewhat restricted. I also recently installed a 7 blade flex fan for more air flow, but it occurred to me, after I had already installed the fan, that with the gearing we have in this Jeep, the engine could be turning at an RPM high enough to flatten out the fan while we may only be moving a few MPH, so we added a 3000cfm electric pusher fan to help the belt driven fan out.[/FONT]
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[FONT="]Last, but not least, we finally managed to find a place to put the washer reservoir so we can wash the dust and mud off with a push of a button instead of trying to lean out the window with a squirt bottle to clean the windshield.[/FONT]
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'85 CJ-7, 258/4.2L 6cyl. Bought new in 1985. Full cage, Warn 8274 winch, Ford 9" rear, front/rear Detroit Lockers w/4:88 R&P. T-5 tranny and 4:1 t'case. 33X12.50-15 BFG/AT, MSD ign, on board air---
1979 Jeep CJ7 TH400 Automatic 258 I6 Quadratrac Amc 20 rear & Dana 30 front, 32 x 11.5 x 15 tires. Currently a Complete Custom Rebuild in progress.
Also I own a 2001 Jeep Cherokee, White, all stock with 4.0L. automatic, and police package. Best part of that is it came with leather seats! This package also has the NP242 Transfer Case, 8.25 rear end, and trailer towing package.
Last year you guys made it to Colorado. This year your prepared. Lots of nice solid well thought out tweaks that should make a big difference this year. Cant wait to hear how it all works out.
We are having some electrical problems. The strange kind....
The E brake releases with such force, it's causing the fuse box to lose connections internally. (we think...) Last week we lost the dash lights and I made a work around with an external fuse. I had hoped that was a fluke, but no, no it's not. Today when releasing the E brake one of the flasher relays fell out , plugged that back in and those work but now the connection where I tapped ignition power for the relays for the on board air, and the new electric pusher fan have no power. There is voltage on both sides of the fuse (with the ignition on), but no voltage at the adjacent connector just like the the fuse for the dash lights. I fear our fuse box is failing. What could be next?? The relay power for the elockers during some up hill climb?? We may have to replace the fuse box depending on what we find. We will pull it apart tomorrow. Seems I spend a lot of time upside down in our jeep parked in the shop.
We will probably have to remove the front seats and seat brackets, and that dang speaker that took forever to get in after installing the full cage. I can hardly wait...
[FONT="]We dove into the electrical problem today. Not my favorite position, hanging upside down trying to see things that are way too close for this ol’ man. Better if I could stand several feet back! I really hate doing any kind of electrical work, especially when it could be any number of about 1,000 things![/FONT]
[FONT="]I started by unplugging all the wires we added for the various add on’s we have installed, then unplugging the fuse box from under the hood, and finally removing the fuse box from the inside of the fire wall.[/FONT]
[FONT="]That’s all the further I had hopped to go. I was able to twist the fuse box enough to see the wires going into the back. They actually looked pretty good. So why are we randomly loosing circuits? I pulled a few fuses, and think I found the problem! Most of the connections in the fuse box were spread too far apart to make a good connection with the fuse. Problem is, there is really no way I can think of to pinch the connections tighter.
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[FONT="]I know this is doing things kind of backwards, but it restored power to every circuit in the box.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Since I couldn’t make the fuse box connections tighter, I kind of made the fuse prongs bigger. I cleaned the prongs on each fuse with some sand paper, then I pinched each prong with a pliers that is used to adjust the couplers on HO model trains. Now instead of having flat blades on the fuses, each blade has a slight “U” shape to it thereby making it fit very tightly into an otherwise worn fuse box.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Fuse before[/FONT]
[FONT="]Fuse after[/FONT]
[FONT="]Pliers[/FONT]
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[FONT="]Glad we didn’t have to replace the whole box!! At least for the time being.[/FONT]
'85 CJ-7, 258/4.2L 6cyl. Bought new in 1985. Full cage, Warn 8274 winch, Ford 9" rear, front/rear Detroit Lockers w/4:88 R&P. T-5 tranny and 4:1 t'case. 33X12.50-15 BFG/AT, MSD ign, on board air---
[FONT="]Although the body was pretty well cut away for tire clearance by the PO, and he didn’t do too bad of a job, it does nothing to keep water and mud off us when off road. I decided to try to make some fender flares before we head out to Colorado this week to at least keep us a little more mud free inside the Jeep.[/FONT]
[FONT="]I am sort of considering this a temporary solution to the flying mud since it was done in pretty much of a hurry.[/FONT]
[FONT="]I started out with some 22ga sheet metal. I had to weld 2 pieces together for each of the rear wheels since the sheet I was using was only 24” wide, and I needed 48”. I had a sheet that was 48” wide, but it would have probably taken longer to dig it out from behind everything, so weld it, I did![/FONT]
[FONT="]After cutting the steel to the proper length and width, I bent it 90° with a brake. After bending it, I used a shrinker/stretcher to get the curve to match the wheel wells. Tractor Supply had some ¼” rubber matt for $5.69/ft, so not knowing how well this would work, I decided to use it. I know being a recycled rubber product it probably won’t last very long, but the hard part was making the flanges for the rubber to bolt to. If they fall apart, I will get a better (and much more expensive) rubber sheet to use.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Steel cut and ready for welding[/FONT]
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[FONT="]In the brake prior to bending[/FONT]
[FONT="]90° bend[/FONT]
[FONT="]After stretching to make the curve[/FONT]
[FONT="]Rubber matt cut to fit flanges[/FONT]
[FONT="]Flange and rubber drilled and bolts inserted[/FONT]
I wasn’t going to include just spring time maintenance in the build thread, but it seems as though the Jeep goblins had their way again. We brought “Chip” out of the barn last week with the intention of just doing some basic maintenance. On the ta-do list was to take the transfer case out and replace all the gaskets and seals, drop the oil pan and change the pan gasket and rear main seal, and design a better cross member/skid plate.
The Transfer Case came out fairly easily, and about 2 hours later, the seal kit arrived. We went to visit with all the kids on Sunday, so even though the rear main seal arrived before we left, the seal would be on the agenda for Monday.
Monday morning, we had at it. Some of the Transfer Case parts were soaking in the parts washer, so we decided to have at the engine oil leaks. I pulled the pan off, and Oldjeeplady had at cleaning and painting it. I boarded my creeper, and slid under the Jeep anxious to try out my new “Sneaky Pete” rear main seal remover/installer. Why did I think this would work? Every time I try to do a 2 piece rear main seal using the latest miracle tool, I am disappointed. Well, I wasn’t disappointed! In being disappointed that is. Make sense? As usual, the tool was a POS. You are supposed to be able to turn it into the upper half of the old seal like a cork screw, and then just pull it out. Right! Maybe if the seal had only been in there for a few weeks, not after who knows how many years. Anyway, long story short, the seal is now boggered up and it has to come out. I was going to try just dropping the crank a fraction of an inch, then try to get the seal out, but that did not work either. Then I looked at the rear main bearing..............................................
And that is what happened next! Out came the engine!
Wonder if this is why we always run just a little below hot on the temp gauge!
I think it just could be possible!
The up side is that the heads and pistons look to be in pretty good shape given what the Jeep looked like when we bought it 3 years ago. The cylinders are shiny with absolutely no cross hatching, so a hone job is on the list. The up side, there are no scratches anywhere. The engine was rebuilt at some point in it’s life. The pistons are .030 over.
The heads look pretty good too.
I know that the valve stem seals are worn, so I am thinking probably a re-ring and bearing kit. Probably timing gears and chain, and an oil pump rebuild.
So what started out to be a few simple gaskets and seals, turned into this:
Tomorrow I will pull the rotating assembly and check cylinder bores, crank journals, and check out the cam for damage. I hope to be able to get away with just a re-ring kit and the other above mentioned parts.
We may decide to check into an Edelbrock intake. I would still keep the MC2100 and use a 4bbl to 2bbl adaptor. I am hoping to run a little cooler that way, and if we decide to go EFI in the future, the manifold will already be installed.
A rolling stone gathers no moss......
x2 on the aluminum intake
Save about 60 pounds, and more air flow.
Make sure you check the intake before installing
I use a straight edge and feeler gauge.
I'm willing to bet the driver side is straight and the passenger side has some daylight.
Should be good if under .008
Yesterday, we finished polishing the crank.
BEFORE
Not too bad, but not the greatest either.
We mounted the crank in the front 2 bearings and turned it with a drill, stopping frequently to oil the bearings to avoid any further damage to the journals.
I did not have sanding rolls, so I just used regular sheet paper which I stapled to ratchet straps. I added a piece of masking tape over the staples as an indicator where to stop to avoid contacting the journals. It also gave a little protection just in case I went too far.
It probably took 4 or 5 hours with my wife operating the drill, and me holding on to the straps, but the crank turned out pretty nice.
My micrometer measures down to .0005” and after polishing with 400 grit to start, and finishing with 600 grit, the difference on each journal was less than .0005.
I can live with that!
Today we dove into the engine rebuild with a vengeance. It was a beautiful day today, so we pushed the Jeep out of the shop and Oldjeeplady had at the engine compartment.
We could not bear to not take the opportunity to pretty things up just a little bit especially since Pete was in the same boat a while back and did such a nice job on his
Jeep.
I made a tool to remove the valve springs rather than spend $50 to $100 for one.
It worked very well. I threaded a 5/16” bolt into the rocker arm bolt holes and just had to push down to release the valve stem keepers.
I put a small block of wood under each pair of valves to hold them in place while I pushed down on the spring.
Using a magnet made removing the clips a breeze!
Initially I thought that I went overboard on the decision to rebuild the engine, especially when I saw that it had at some point been rebuilt,
(one of the few truths the PO told me). But, the further along we get, the happier I am that we chose to do this!
Once all the valves were removed from the heads,
It was apparent that they needed attention! The exhaust valves are in pretty good condition.
The intakes really need some clean up!
Nothing is burned. There is some minor pitting once the carbon is removed. I thought I had a full tube of valve grinding compound, but I was wrong. Tomorrow it’s off to Advance Auto to get some and a few other necessities.
Before knocking off for the day, I degreased the heads, pressure washed them, and dried them in preparation for lapping the valves tomorrow.
I will probably soda blast the heads to prep them for painting.
As I said, the engine has been rebuilt at some point in it’s lifetime. But, I found a PO screw up that I never anticipated. There are .030 over pistons in the engine.
I miced the cylinders, and they were .030 over. Every one nice and straight. No tapers, barrels, or scratches. The only thing wrong is that the cylinders are shiney as a
mirror. All that will be required is to hone and cross hatch to prepare for the new rings………………The rings…………..that’s another story! Just to satisfy my own curiosity, I pulled some rings off the pistons and squared them in the cylinder bore. I discovered a .054 ring end gap! Specs for this engine are .010 to .020 if I remember correctly.
Looks like the idiot PO actually installed standard size rings on .030 over pistons! This explains quite a bit of why the power is not what I expect out of a AMC 304 .
Here is a picture showing a .050 spark plug gaping tool in the ring gap. Hey! Maybe he was planning on putting a super charger or a wet nitrous system on.
That would explain the excessive ring gap...............No, just another idiot PO story to tell!
I hope to finish the valves tomorrow so that when the rebuild kit arrives latter this week, I can call the heads done.
I am going to pick up some engine cleaning brushes to clean out the oil galleries and cooling passages also.
That was one heck of a post just to see if I was still paying attention lol. I am , probably more now than ever. My 79 got here Sunday and my build is going to be eerily similar to yours. I'm guessing you never checked the compression before on the AMC 304 ? Crazy the things you find working on these old Jeeps.
That was one heck of a post just to see if I was still paying attention lol. I am , probably more now than ever. My 79 got here Sunday and my build is going to be eerily similar to yours. I'm guessing you never checked the compression before on the 304? Crazy the things you find working on these old Jeeps.
My main reason for wanting one was to make gentle bends in 2” exhaust pipe. I had tried a hydraulic pipe bender, but all that did was kink the pipe. The first time I used the bender was to make the exhaust on this Jeep. It worked pretty well.[/FONT]
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I had found the YouTube video that was linked to in another thread and watched it several times. Finally, I think to myself, “time to try to make a roll cage”.[/FONT]
I put a longer handle on the bender to increase the leverage and only managed to pull the lag bolts holding the bender to a wooden floor, out of the floor! 
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:rock:
