Bad vibration above 1900

[jasonmark1993]

Ok, I have more info. This vibration rattles the vehicle at startup, as I let the clutch out. It has a high vibration below around 1500. Past 2 grand is a no go. poopie would rattle to pieces.. The idle has a surge under the hood and a little chop at idle. I have been reading, could my problem be misfiring? How do I test the cylinders? I can check the compression in each, but how do I know if all are getting compression how to tell if they are all firing? If I check spark, how do I know it's not lean misfiring?


Thanks in advance!

An engine misfire, timing way off, etc can easily cause what you describe. You may eventually need to do a compression test, but its a bit more work and may not be required. I suggest the following:

The quickest way to check for a "dead' cylinder is to pull one plug wire at a time. Do this while the vehicle is at idle. Use some sort of pliers with rubber ends on them. Any autoparts store should have them. Or you can pull the wire with the engine off and then start the engine. You only want one wire off at a time. If you have a misfire or dead cylinder, the removal of that plug wire won't change anything.

You better just start from scratch; maybe the plug wires are on the wrong cylinders.

Another good suggestion is to just pull each spark plug and take a look at it. You can tell (to a point) what is happening in each cylinder by how the plug looks. If you find one thats all wet with fuel, that cylinder isn't firing for some reason. You will also be able to get an idea if you are running way rich or lean. Remember, this doesn't definitely mean a carb problem, incorrect timing will cause incomplete combustion and may indicate a rich condition so you need to correct that first.

If you find a dead cylinder and all ignition problems are eliminated, you can then move on to a compression test.

If you have a timing light, check the timing. If you don't, physically or visually mark the distributor against the block and try moving it about a half inch either way and note any difference.

Good job taking a look at this before getting too far down the other track. Dampers often look worn out even when they aren't (rubber cracked and bulging a little).

 

[Germy]

Ok, I'm starting with plugs. I will check them. If I need replacements, should I look it up for a wagoneer with a 5.9? If plugs look good, then check timing. Is it possible to be 180 out? Would it even run? Then move to compression. So at worst it's rings, valves, timing or flywheel. It vibrates all through rpms, but gets terrible around1900 BTW. Thanks!!!!!!

 

[tarry99]

does it vibrate when you rev it up with the clutch in standing still????NOT MOVING?

 

[jasonmark1993]

Wont run at 180 out.

After an engine swap, ordering plugs for the original vehicle is one way to do it. I wouldn't change them unless they are worn or extremely fouled.

Double check the firing order with how the wires are on there.

 

[Germy]

Pulled a plug. It had white On it. I put it back in and left the cable off. Started it and it sounded the way it always does. What is the white telling me?

Edit-I looked em up, seems to be ash fouling right? Here is the pic. This is the only plug I checked, just had a sec.

 

[jasonmark1993]

Ya thats some oil residue on there. Doesn't necessarily mean you have a mechanical problem causing oil to get in there. When I've run into this, its more often that the cylinder isn't firing for some reason and the small amount of oil just wasn't burning off.

If you pulled that wire off and nothing changed, you might have gotten lucky and started on the bad cylinder. By bad cylinder I just mean it isn't firing, not mechanically bad.

Its possible that the thing is running so bad that pulling one wire won't make a noticeable difference.

Id put that one back on and pull each one and see if you notice a more of a difference.

A quick way to see if that cylinder is getting spark it to use a jumper wire from the side electrode to ground and start the engine. Or you can just lay it against the block. Just make sure you have a good view of the gap to see if there is spark. If you're unsure if you're doing it right, try another one.

The cool thing is that since your engine runs, you can compare the cylinders against each other.

Since we're starting from scratch with a new vehicle, I'd take a look at the cap and rotor. I strongly suggest that you check the timing after confirming that the firing order is correct. Get the firing order for that specific vehicle like we talked about for the plugs. Firing orders can change over the years. If the timing is way off, you can get exactly what you are describing along with plugs that end up all dirty.

 

[Germy]

Have an hei dizzy installed, I took firing order from my manual. I'll check spark, replace plugs and report my findings

 

[jasonmark1993]

10 4

 

[Germy]

Here are the plugs. I think I need to check plug wires next. Will I have to re stab the dizzy? How can I tell if it's off? I'm running up to check with timing light.View attachment 9863View attachment 9864View attachment 9865View attachment 9866View attachment 9867

 

[Germy]

View attachment 9868View attachment 9869View attachment 9870

 

[jasonmark1993]

Alright so #3 is the only one that looks remotely normal.

#5 is not going to be firing because the electrode is smashed down on the center electrode.

You're going to want to replace those plugs, but if everything is set right and you just have those fouled plugs, your engine will run ok and you won't be shaking like you describe. So replace those last.

Most of the pictures were blurry; not sure if I saw something green on one of them. EDIT GRASS? let me know if you did.

Do you know what you have the timing set at? Because with them all looking like that, something is effecting the whole system; not just one dead hole.

Any engine will run at 10* BTDC. So mark the damper at 10 and move the dizzy until that lines up with that pointer while you are idle.

 

[Germy]

Replaced plugs, same issue. I am suspecting a tooth off of dizzy or timing chain. Something is off in the whole system as you said.

 

[jasonmark1993]

Cool. Checking the timing will tell you if any of what you mentioned is happening.

Let us know what you come up with. Don't just pull the dizzy though; on some you can move them more than enough to make up for a tooth off.

 

[Germy]

Ok, just super hard to see the marks, honestly I can't see em

 

[jasonmark1993]

Ya I hear ya; during the day its about impossible unless you can get it in the garage.

Are you not able to see them at all to mark it, or just when you are shining the light down there? Soapstone or white touch up paint works the best.

Remember, you can do this without a light. Just move it around and see if it'll run better. Just go kindof slow. You'll know right away because the idle will get worse if you go the wrong way.

 

[tarry99]

Check #5 looks in picture like no spark plug Gap!

 

[Germy]

I replaced the plugs and tried moving the distributor. Goes to hell turning in either direction. The exhaust is smelling of gas and has a whiteness to it. Just not sure if I should say firetruck it and grab a rebuilt one.

 

[jasonmark1993]

Ok well you are getting somewhere. You can pretty much assume its not a timing problem then; still a good idea to get a light on it when you get a chance. Id try and put it back where it was and hope the PO had it right.

As far as getting a rebuilt engine, we don't know if a mechanical problem with the engine is causing this, or if you have a carb problem. You may install a new engine and find you have the same problem.

What kind of fuel system do you have on there. Any chance you can post a picture of the carb? Or is this injected; guess we never asked.

White in the exhaust generally indicates coolant but that has a very distinct smell. You also should have seen some coolant on the plugs. Double check that the crust you saw wasn't coolant.

Oil can also show up as white. It may just be a very small amount of oil, but since you aren't firing properly or overly rich, it can look worse than it is.

Id suggest spending a little time to make sure you don't have a fueling problem, and then move on to a compression test.

 

[Germy]

I did mess with mixture screws, maybe way to rich. It's an edelbrock 600 electric choke, brand new.

 

[jasonmark1993]

Alright. They should be about 1.5 turns out. I believe this carb should just have 2. While the engine is running, look down into the carb while its idling. Make sure that you don't see any fuel dripping down into the carb indicating too high fuel pressure or float level. Both of those are unlikely, but it can happen.

You can do this about the same as setting the timing; just shoot for the best idle.

Let us know if you can even get any change out of it.

If you can't get anything out of playing with those, you may need to pop a plug or two out and see whats happening. Id like to see number 5 since that electrode was smashed.

Take a look at your exhaust too; lets make sure this isn't something like plugged exhaust.