Clutch fan or electric?

[JR74CJ5]

Well... Was doing a little wheelin and mudding this last weekend, everything going fine, then put the fan through the radiator...

Apparently when it hit the muddy water the flexfan bent a blade and hit the radiator which, it seems, blew the bottom seal on my radiator, and smacked up the inner "face" of it...

Know i need to check motor mounts, what else?

And while fixing, electric or clutch? Whats the pros /cons?

 

[JR74CJ5]

Also, On radiator replacement. Was looking for four core... No one seems to sell one so far... (only been searching about 10 min at summit and morris)

I've never had overheating problems yet with the regular radiator, just wondering if i should beef it up "while i'm at it..."

We all know how that "while i'm at it / while im in there" goes...

Also will post the vids and pics in trails section from last weekends short trip.

 

[billyocup]

JR - I've read pros and cons on both sides of this. Eliminating the the engine driven fan and going electric frees up engine horsepower, but the electric fan is not as efficient for cooling when traveling at low speed, like driving off-road.

I'll be very interested to hear what the other guys have to say about this, because I'll be trying to make the same decisions on my 75 pretty soon.

Bill

 

[coldair]

Ive run both clutch and electric fan. I like the electric fan better for rock crawling you just have to run duel fans, i use an inline thermal switch to kick on the fans. not sure about mudding alot with them though ive been up to the fans in water and have had them kick on and never had any probelms.

 

[ken98k]

I like electric but get the biggest that will fit.

 

[JR74CJ5]

Alright guys... been burning time at work... if old man (boss) finds out

any who, looking into this:

Radiator: | O'Reilly Auto Parts

And this: Contour Fan. Factory speed control? - Page 2 - JeepForum.com

Dual 3.8 fan, with temp controlled low, manual override for high, and centered off switch for playing in deep ...

Now just have to have a few beers at home while i try to figure out the wires, resistors, relays etc I will need to do this. I know with a little more research i will grasp it. Just wish there was a full clean and percise 1974 install of... thread somewhere I will get it, but you know... kinda intimidated by all the knowledge that is considered "easy" by some of the posts Just haven't done much moderate to high difficulty wiring before...

I will post some more later to hopefully spark some interest...

Any experience etc would be awesome too as always Where are you BusaDave lol < Daves always got some good input!

All,
~ JR

 

[JR74CJ5]

JR - I've read pros and cons on both sides of this. Eliminating the the engine driven fan and going electric frees up engine horsepower, but the electric fan is not as efficient for cooling when traveling at low speed, like driving off-road.

I'll be very interested to hear what the other guys have to say about this, because I'll be trying to make the same decisions on my 75 pretty soon.

Bill

Hey Bill, if you want to do some reading... http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f99/useful-info-thought-id-share-665/

Check out the first post, 4 links to great and very lengthy write-ups on the dual electric fans... (Thanks Brock! )

 

[JR74CJ5]

Radiator: | O'Reilly Auto Parts

So... When looking at comparison between radiators, this appears to list it is a 4 core radiator, but when you click on the actual item, it says 3 row.

Upon asking them why the 3 row one has a different depth and is less expensive then if this is not actually a 4 core, they said, don't know...

So looking for a website for Murray radiators to try to verify outside of oriely's site, but cant find anything! lol Going to take a break...

Also, for any who have done this, probably a stupid question, but where / what temp probe / switch etc is being referenced in attached? Like how would i find this?

EDIT: Found this... http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DER-16759/

Possible...

Still turning this all over in my head...

 

[Old Dog]

LOL I've put a fan or two into the rad. myself playing in the water and mud.
I like running an electric as I can turn it off when I'm giong to be in the deep stuff. I run mostly rocks though and I like the electric as it pulls more air than a clutch fan at low rpms.
You do always have the worry that something will happen to it and it will quit working.
I carry an extra one in my truck (at the trailhead or camp)when we go wheeln just in case I have to send someone after it.

 

[JR74CJ5]

LOL I've put a fan or two into the rad. myself playing in the water and mud.

Yeah... really ticked me off since I had the fan off to remove the shroud right before it happened... Thought it was contacting the outer section of the shroud at first... truthfully, i could have avoided this 3 times that day... was not thinking very clearly... :grinjeep: was just happy to have 4 wheel drive finally, and be able to test new limits of the jeep...

In hindsight, this was a total bone head move, and while the fan was off, i should have got my mud bogging over with then put it back on...



But live and learn.

So now thinking of doing this dual electric fan set up from 3.8 ford...

Just trying to track down all I'll need to do so correctly. Going to almost completely copy that schematic from JYG above, as it looks to be able to do everything i want, including:

auto operate the 2 speeds based on temp
manually allow shut off of fans for deeper ventures
manually allow full speed switch on in case needed etc.

just trying to wrap a sober mind around it all... need a ...

 

[7D8CJ]

I like my solid fan. The simpler the better.

 

[JR74CJ5]

Money is a little tight... So may agree and stay with mech fan for a min...

Especially since getting home to find a new puddle under the cj... Power steering gear box appears (upon very short and "cursy" inspection) to have blown the bottom seal ? Leaking (or at least wet and dripping) from the pitman arm connection area...



But if / when i go this way, will post to here...

 

[JR74CJ5]

so this is what i am planning for temp upgrade / fix...

| O'Reilly Auto Parts

| O'Reilly Auto Parts

| O'Reilly Auto Parts

Radiator, and clutch fan, and fan blade

Should work out? I can't find where it will tell me overall length of everything, and if it will all "fit" together...

 

[jeepboy45]

I see you're in the neighborhood of $240 for the radiator..
I looked at it and wondered why you arent going for an aluminum one.
You can get them for about the same money, and they cool better.

I am looking right now for one, and in fact just wired up the electric fan thermostat/relay about an hour ago in prep for buying the radiator.

just curious..
check out 4wd hardware and ebay...thats where I've been looking..

 

[CJ007]

I like my solid fan. The simpler the better.

X2!

 

[IOPort51]

electric is the way to go, quieter and only runs when you need it, which is not as much as you may think. I found an electric and thermostat were just a little cheaper than a fan and clutch. Go with the 4 row coil if at all possible. I have a chain welded to the skid plate with a bolt welded on the end of it, the bolt goes in one of the holes in the bell housing. leave just enough slack to give it a little play. I replaced 3 radiator before getting smart enough to do this. Run into a little tree or a wall or a street sign and the radiator and the fan are toast.

 

[Turbogus]

Let me preface that I'm not an expert. That being said over the years since I first got 'Black Betty'



(JR I like your cage, I have the same design myself)



My mods so far;
Turned the only fan on her at the time, an electric FAL pusher, into a puller.
Added fan shround
New 3 row radiator
Added 1/4" expanded metal shield for radiator core behind grille
Replaced leaking water pump with FlowKooler w/p
Replaced all hoses put spring coils in both (upper hose was collapsing with new w/p
Replaced intermittently failing e fan controller (with screw in threaded sender) internal upper radiator hose sleeve with 2 bungs

.... and my latest pending project, Contour/Mystique double fan.
Having run all this past my local guru, Mac of Mac's Jeeparts and a fellow vet, he tells me he got some new brass and copper (yes I've heard over and over both sides about cooling capabilities of the new style design lovered side tanks of aluminum radiators) cross flow radiators, something I've read about in JP or 4 wheeler. If the Ford fans fail to accomplish what I want I'll be going for the cross flow.

 

[BajaEdition]

sorry I am so late

I noticed you have a big problem, your fan hit the radiator
that is the first issue ou have, why did that fan hit the radiator, what is so wrong that it can hit it.

now about the clutch fan or electric fan

clutch fans are technology from days long past, they are a compromise to make the fan run part of the time, however they're not controlled by the temperature of the coolant, instead the rpm of the engine.

Electric fans are technology of the current era, we can control the fan by the temperature of coolant in the radiator. Thereby we have more control over the coolant temperature than with a clutch fan.

also with a electric fan we gain room between engine and radiator. and shroud designs are more efficient.

I suggest finding out what is wrong to allow the engine to move enough to strike the radiator, fix that and then put in a electric fan and modern temperature sensor to control it.

 

[Turbogus]

clutch fans are technology from days long past, they are a compromise to make the fan run part of the time, however they're not controlled by the temperature of the coolant, instead the rpm of the engine.

I'm no one's expert, to be sure, but I thought that the fan clutches were engaged by the realitve temperture transmitted by localized temp given it's proximity to the radiator and water pump, and a rigidly mounted fan was engine rpm..... or am I wrong again

Notwithstanding all of this I do like the idea of electric fans and that's what I'm running and upgrading, but older technology isn't always eclipsed by newer imho. Ask any Marine, we know how we make do with the gear we have as much of the funding goes to the fleet. During my time at MCLB Barstow there was quite a to do when the 100,000 M-60 tank was rebuilt, whlie the Army had fielded the M-1 more than a couple of years prior.... and I'd rather have my trusty old M-79 than a 203 any day, back in my service days.

 

[JR74CJ5]

sorry I am so late

I noticed you have a big problem, your fan hit the radiator
that is the first issue ou have, why did that fan hit the radiator, what is so wrong that it can hit it.

now about the clutch fan or electric fan

clutch fans are technology from days long past, they are a compromise to make the fan run part of the time, however they're not controlled by the temperature of the coolant, instead the rpm of the engine.

Electric fans are technology of the current era, we can control the fan by the temperature of coolant in the radiator. Thereby we have more control over the coolant temperature than with a clutch fan.

also with a electric fan we gain room between engine and radiator. and shroud designs are more efficient.

I suggest finding out what is wrong to allow the engine to move enough to strike the radiator, fix that and then put in a electric fan and modern temperature sensor to control it.

I've checked engine mounts, they're good (was my first thought)

From what I can tell, with my flex fan, when it hits the water, the blades bend (they're flexible) and it's close enough to the radiator, that it hits the radiator, just did it again the other day, (see photo, was pretty deep) but luckily did not damage radiator into leaking. I'm thinking for now to space it a little further back from the radiator, (right now there's the large spacer in front) stay out of such deep water, and eventually do a alternator relocation kit from Bull tear (to stop frying them as often) and get a electric fan with shut off switches for water crossings.

But if you have any other ideas on why my fan would be hitting the radiator, please school me Baja!


I've read: Think the flex fans are flexible. When you hit / submerge partially into the water, the fan is now pushing water instead of air, the heavier water forces the fan to over flex towards the radiator, which puts it too close to the radiator...

~ JR