Clutch fan or electric?

[paparooster]

My opinion is Nice thing about electric fan is that I can turn it off while going through a deep mud hole . A stock fan will throw mud and water everywhere even with the shroud .

 

[JR74CJ5]

Hey JR,

Sorry to get off point whereby the real question was why did your fan hit?

No worries Tarry! I'm all for a good healthy debate and learning from those who are more knowledgeable than me You and 73Jeep are more than welcome to politely debate whatever you wish on the subject. This is an older thread, and it was discussing the which is better replacement (although one option was obviously not the best (clutch fan) I thought that clutch fans stopped when they "hit" something like water , mud, or my radiator... I've figured out since that's NOT the case... lol ) and you both obviously know something about the subject...

We just keep it nice and clean with the debating Which you both were doing "pretty" good with... I think Coldair and I were a little worried that egos would come out quickly and feelings get hurt. We're all jeepers here and have to remember we'd all be on top of Mt. Everest together if our old CJ's would make it! (Is there enough air up there for the carb? )

Want some advice?.............Stay out of the deep end of the pool!

BUT THAT"S NOT FUN!!!

Yes for now, I'll be staying away from the submarine runs...



~ JR

 

[tarry99]

No worries Tarry! I'm all for a good healthy debate and learning from those who are more knowledgeable than me You and 73Jeep are more than welcome to politely debate whatever you wish on the subject. This is an older thread, and it was discussing the which is better replacement (although one option was obviously not the best (clutch fan) I thought that clutch fans stopped when they "hit" something like water , mud, or my radiator... I've figured out since that's NOT the case... lol ) and you both obviously know something about the subject...

We just keep it nice and clean with the debating Which you both were doing "pretty" good with... I think Coldair and I were a little worried that egos would come out quickly and feelings get hurt. We're all jeepers here and have to remember we'd all be on top of Mt. Everest together if our old CJ's would make it! (Is there enough air up there for the carb? )



BUT THAT"S NOT FUN!!!

Yes for now, I'll be staying away from the submarine runs...



~ JR

JR,

No matter what you do or install there is nothing perfect that covers all variables. It's up to the smartest guy to get it to work within the given environment at that time. Hence, the Brain is the most important tool.
Debates .....Opinions...........Columns of air.........easy math?
Good day!

 

[jeepboy45]

Hey JR74CJ5...

I followed this thread when it was current, but stopped when it became kinda heated.....However, I referred back to it tonight.

I installed a dual fan setup earlier in the year. Flex A Lite dual fans. However I didnt have the relay or thermostat setup that originally came with the Flex a Lite rig, so I used a crappy generic one I got from Pep boys. It seemed to work alright. However, it wasnt long before my engine crapped out. That was around March or April.

Jeep has sat in garage since then. Just started my new engine yesterday. Tonight (after only about AMC 150 miles of use on the fan/relay/thermostat since March) the relay/thermostat &^%^%$^& on me and sent my brand new engine (only about 30 miles on it) to about 230+ degrees!!! Tomorrow it will become direct wired--- with a kill switch on the dash.

As much as I like the idea of the electric fan setup, there are (as was mentioned above in earlier posts) more components that can end up failing. In my case it was the Chinese made relay/thermostat. It will go bye-bye tomorrow when I get the wire cutters out and decide how I want to wire it this time. The less things that can fail---the better.

What did you end up doing?

 

[tarry99]

Hey JR74CJ5...

I followed this thread when it was current, but stopped when it became kinda heated.....However, I referred back to it tonight.

I installed a dual fan setup earlier in the year. Flex A Lite dual fans. However I didnt have the relay or thermostat setup that originally came with the Flex a Lite rig, so I used a crappy generic one I got from Pep boys. It seemed to work alright. However, it wasnt long before my engine crapped out. That was around March or April.

Jeep has sat in garage since then. Just started my new engine yesterday. Tonight (after only about AMC 150 miles of use on the fan/relay/thermostat since March) the relay/thermostat &^%^%$^& on me and sent my brand new engine (only about 30 miles on it) to about 230+ degrees!!! Tomorrow it will become direct wired--- with a kill switch on the dash.

As much as I like the idea of the electric fan setup, there are (as was mentioned above in earlier posts) more components that can end up failing. In my case it was the Chinese made relay/thermostat. It will go bye-bye tomorrow when I get the wire cutters out and decide how I want to wire it this time. The less things that can fail---the better.

What did you end up doing?

Jeepboy,

Hey just opinions and everyone is welcome to that......

Make sure first off you have a good quality relay that exceeds the amperage draw rating of the fan and also that your Primary wire from relay to power source is of adequate size to carry that same amperage obviously that circuit needs to be fused.........the trigger wire from your switch can be a lessor gauge ..............but don't skimp on the input side.

 

[Turbogus]

I pulled the dual fan and later the Ford relays from a '99 Merc Mystique. Took some doing to figure out which of the relays were 70 amp but got it figured out now.

 

[GatorBate]

While this discussion was going on I found a Ford Couture. Its has a two speed twin electric fans and is a perfect fit for the CJ radiator. I ran the control voltage for the relays through a oil pressure switch. So whenever my engine is running the fan is running on low speed and the control voltage for the high speed relay also goes through a thermostat set around 190. So far it has been a big improvement for me.

I also discovered that I couldn't run my fan and lights at the same time. (the hard way)The fan pulls about 20 amps on high. I had to get a larger alternator to power everything.

 

[JR74CJ5]

Hey JR74CJ5...

I followed this thread when it was current, but stopped when it became kinda heated.....However, I referred back to it tonight.

I installed a dual fan setup earlier in the year. Flex A Lite dual fans. However I didnt have the relay or thermostat setup that originally came with the Flex a Lite rig, so I used a crappy generic one I got from Pep boys. It seemed to work alright. However, it wasnt long before my engine crapped out. That was around March or April.

Jeep has sat in garage since then. Just started my new engine yesterday. Tonight (after only about AMC 150 miles of use on the fan/relay/thermostat since March) the relay/thermostat &^%^%$^& on me and sent my brand new engine (only about 30 miles on it) to about 230+ degrees!!! Tomorrow it will become direct wired--- with a kill switch on the dash.

As much as I like the idea of the electric fan setup, there are (as was mentioned above in earlier posts) more components that can end up failing. In my case it was the Chinese made relay/thermostat. It will go bye-bye tomorrow when I get the wire cutters out and decide how I want to wire it this time. The less things that can fail---the better.

What did you end up doing?

I liked a lot of the ideas that Junyard Genuis AKA Team Rush posted in another forum.

He has it wired with a 3 way master switch in the dash.
* Over-Ride "ON" position - Fan(s) on even when key and engine is off.
* Over-Ride "Off" position - For water crossings or forced warm ups?
* Automatic Thermostat / temperature activation position - Hooked to a probe installed in the "fins" of the radiator I believe. Senses the head and at a certain temp the fans come on.

There was a great wiring schematic I had saved at one point on this, but need to try to find it now... May have even linked this in beginning of the thread. He listed junkyard components that could save cost for use.

I also like the idea of a "Idiot light" that would come on when over ride off is selected, as well as a "idiot light" that shows fan failure or Temperature abnormality to help eliminate the possibility of running too far with a unknown problem under the hood.

In a perfect world, I would keep the components on hand to switch to my manual belt driven fan on the trail if necessary. But a CJ5 without a trailer can be a pain to keep extra parts on if you dont have planned right...

As for the question of: "What did I end up doing? I actually replaced all the components with same for same, and have been avoiding deep water crossings (due to alternator failures too )

But one day, I'll switch over to electric, just not sure of the precautions I'll be taking at that time to eliminate worries this thread has shown DO exist

I've been seeing your problems with that new engine too... Sucks man!

You'll get her all straightened out bud!


JR

 

[JR74CJ5]

It's a little over board, but has a lot of features... I like a lot of this manor of wiring up the fans...



Contour Fan. Factory speed control? - Page 2 - JeepForum.com

Theres a few things I may add / change... But can't remember what they were yet...

 

[jeepboy45]

Uh, yeah....that looks good and the redundancy sounds great.....

but the wiring is a bit over my head. I wouldnt know where to begin.

 

[jeepboy45]

It's a little over board, but has a lot of features... I like a lot of this manor of wiring up the fans...



Contour Fan. Factory speed control? - Page 2 - JeepForum.com

Theres a few things I may add / change... But can't remember what they were yet...

thanks very much for that link... I need some advil for my pounding headache .....

I currently have a flex a lite dual fan that I got for cheap at a swap meet. No wiring though, and thats why I used that crappy relay/thermostat...

Looking for a good way to wire it.

Maybe if I saw that thread before, I would have gone the Contour route...

 

[Turbogus]

It helps for those of us that got used to wiring up stereo systems in the '70's I reckon. There are several threads among Jeep forums about this upgrade. The primary hurtle is to find the correct parts it seems. Once I get mine istalled I'm intending to post a tutorial with photos on how I did mine, which'll likely be an amalgamation of the methods I've seen so far. These fans lend themselves to a great number of way to wire up for us. Keep the faith

 

[JR74CJ5]

Uh, yeah....that looks good and the redundancy sounds great.....

but the wiring is a bit over my head. I wouldnt know where to begin.

It's not too bad once you get the hang of it! I actually love wiring stuff up! I HATE fixing or finding issues in wiring though!

What would help is to lay the parts all out on a board and get a basic idea of the wiring. His schematic also shows having dual batteries... So you would adjust if you don't...

Then you draw out the wiring as shown to different parts (you can just draw the parts that are already installed in your rig to not uninstall and re install... )

Then tackle one wire at a time. within the jeep making sure to get it ran to the correct length and out of the way from everything (clean)...

I say use the board because I like BIG wiring diagrams!

A beer for every correctly wired wore and a 36 pack later and your head will not be hurting til the morning when you have to re-do it all :wasted:

But it could always be worse... like this poor little fella:

 

[jeepboy45]

I'll give it a try....

still deciding whether to do it via schematic or just get the Flex part with wiring and relay.

 

[IOPort51]

SMP Engine Coolant Fan Temperature Switch | eBay


this is what I use , it screws into the side of the block or the intake manifold, wherever there is coolant. closes at about 190 I think and opens at 180. they usually tell you what the range is but this add does not. I think you can find one at a local parts house. I used a couple of those adjustable stats with the sensing bulb and they are pretty much . Do use a good 40 amp relay for each fan and use 10 or at least 12 ga. wire, these things pull a lot more amps than you may expect. and of course always use fuses to anything you tie to the battery.

 

[Turbogus]

One thing I'm intending as part of the tutorial I'm planning (pending attending to my house and fixing a rear main seal leak) is laying out the entire shooting match on my benchtop for photos and to bench test prior to installation. Perhaps this'd be the way to go if one's trepidatious about their skills with the wiring, component placement and soldering.

 

[jeepboy45]

I hate the sensor that goes in the fins of the radiator. That is why I'll prob go with the screw in kind with a sender.

However, I dont think the fans should turn on or off based on the temperature of coolant in the engine. The engine temp is regulated by thermostat opening and allowing hot engine coolant to pass into the radiator, and allowing cooler radiator coolant to go into the engine.

The fans should come on based on the temp of the coolant in the radiator. If that statement is correct, can I screw the sender into the plug on top of the thermostat housing? Wouldnt that be basically the same temp as the radiator? Or would it be engine temp?

Maybe I'm way off base here.

EDIT: I just got off the phone with Flex a Lite and the guy pretty much agreed that the sender needs to be closer to the radiator. If its screwed into the manifold, then the fans will be turning on / off with engine temp, not radiator temp. They sell an overpriced part to fix this. It is just an inline fitting that the upper radiator hose connects to. It has a 1/4 NPT port for the sensor to screw into... I believe I'll fab my own. They get about $50 for this. It allows the sender to be very close to the radiator, and far more secure than the probe which sticks in the fins...

Now onto wiring this, and getting that POS auto parts store sender/relay out of my jeep.

 

[Turbogus]

Available through Summit Racing they have available an inner sleeve that fits inside your upper radiator hose that puts the sender right in the flow of the coolant. It has two ports so if you're fitting two senders for the fans to start up independantly, it'll be a breeze. (pardon the pun).

 

[jeepboy45]

Available through Summit Racing they have available an inner sleeve that fits inside your upper radiator hose that puts the sender right in the flow of the coolant. It has two ports so if you're fitting two senders for the fans to start up independantly, it'll be a breeze. (pardon the pun).

I had just discovered that part....thanks...

Out of curiousity, how did you wire yours? did you fab your own control / relays, etc... or did you buy a controller like a FAL 31163 and be done with it?

I've got the cutters in hand and ready to get this other controller out of my jeep... but should probably have a plan to have it back in running condition.

 

[jeepboy45]

SMP Engine Coolant Fan Temperature Switch | eBay


this is what I use , it screws into the side of the block or the intake manifold, wherever there is coolant. closes at about 190 I think and opens at 180. they usually tell you what the range is but this add does not. I think you can find one at a local parts house. I used a couple of those adjustable stats with the sensing bulb and they are pretty much . Do use a good 40 amp relay for each fan and use 10 or at least 12 ga. wire, these things pull a lot more amps than you may expect. and of course always use fuses to anything you tie to the battery.

IO: How did you wire this into the system?
Did you put wire it into the 12v ignition wire going to the relay, or into the wire providing power from the relay to the fan?

My plan is this:
passing on the $AMC 150 flex a lite controller
Wiring one fan always on with ignition 12v wire triggering the relay
Wiring the other fan to come on when coolant temperature hits a certain temp.

This should be soooo simple, but for some reason I overcomplicate things in my head