I am a Newb and I feel stupid....

[GMcGee]

As the title suggest, I am having a hard time figuring out a way to solve my issue. I am so-so when it comes to mechanics and have always loved jeeps and recently bought an '84 CJ7 for pretty cheap. I will need to replace come body panels and do some engine work among other things so, needless to say this is biggest project I have done to date. Anyhow, the guy I bought it from said that it would need brakes since the old calipers seized up. I installed new ones from Advance Auto and I even compared them with the old ones before I left and they looked the same. I went to install them but they don't seem right.
So, here's the issue...The piston for the caliper is exposed beyond the pad and there is some play side to side that may go away once there is some pressure in the brake lines? Then I look to see where to connect the brake line that goes from the caliper to the main brake line and I can not find it! I found what looks to be where it should be but it isn't there! There are also these little clips that I have no idea how to install. I haven't spent too much time on it today and that is where I left off. I know this is stupid because as I searched the forums, no one asked where the brake line is located and references of caliper piston size....I will try to attach some pics to this post and hopefully some of you seasoned jeepers out there can help a newb out! Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[CJim7]

That overlap is normal, dont know why, but that's just the design. The clips go on the top and bottom of the caliper to secure the brake pads. It's kind of a chinese puzzle to figure them out.

Im not sure what you mean by main brake line....are you talking about the one that comes around the crossmember from the proportioning valve?

 

[GMcGee]

CJLim7,
Thanks for the input on the caliper. As far as the brake line from the caliper, as you can see in the pics, I am pretty sure that I have an idea where it goes, but the line that it connects to I have no idea where it is and if it is missing, where can I check to see if I am missing the whole line?
Also, any pics of the caliper with the clips installed? That would help me figure that out as well. THanks again!

 

[CJim7]

That line you are looking for enters the frame about 6 inches back from the front crossmember. You should be able to see where it goes in from underneath or from the engine compartment. That line originates from the prop valve on the driver side, and heads up and around the front crossmember.

Wish I could help with the retaining clips...I always struggle with those dumb things when I change my brake pads
You might try a google search for a diagram of those things.

 

[mylittlecj5]

Here is a part of the TSM...It might have the info you need. Page 18 has a (bad) pic of the caliper.

http://oljeep.com/gw/82_tsm/Part%202%20Section%20G.pdf

 

[Old Dog]

Here's a pic of how the clips go, there should be one on the top and one on the bottom to hold the pads.

 

[BusaDave9]

I see what you are saying. Where's your brake line?

this picture shows the flexible brake line where it should attach to the stiff brake line. It should go into that hole.
Here's mine

You can see my flexible line going in front of my shock. It mates up to the stiff brake line in front of my red bump stop. The extra hose is my radiator overflow that I have stuck behind my brake line.

 

[GMcGee]

Fellas,
Thanks for the helpful replies! I plan on looking for the prop valve today and seeing if there are any front brake lines coming from it. Thanks again and I am sure I will be back with other questions!

 

[BusaDave9]

If you are missing at least one brake line up front you have no front brakes. With only rear brakes the rear tires will lock up very easily since the weight normally shifts to the front during braking. That is a very dangerous situation. Don't move your Jeep until you fix the brakes.
Your brake reservoir has 2 sections: the front section is for the rear brakes. The larger rear section is for the front brakes (this section is probably empty). There should be 2 brake lines from your reservoir to the proportioning valve mounted on the left frame rail. From there there is one brake line going to the rear. There is also 2 brake lines going to the 2 front brakes.

 

[GMcGee]

Thanks again for the support! Just to give everyone a piece of mind, the vehicle is not running so, rest easy knowing that it will not be on the road until I am done restoring it (hopefully spring)!
I have successfully installed the anti-rattle clips thanks to Old Dog's picture!

Also I believe that I have found the prop valve but from what I can tell I am indeed missing some brake lines. From the looks of it (not sure though), I am missing 2, possibly three lines. As you can see in the pics below I am pointing at what I am guessing are outlets just not sure which goes to the driver side, passenger side, or the "mystery side". Again, all of you have been great and I thank you in advance for your help!







This pic below is the mystery one...not sure if something is supposed to be where I am pointing or not...


Thanks!

 

[dslywalker]

You might be better off going this route.Don't remember which one was the best supplier.Someone here will know.

Classic Tube - PreBent and Custom Stainless and OE Brake Lines and more...

Inline Tube - Preformed Stainless & OEM Brake Line Sets

 

[Petescj]

I'll get you some pics of mine tommorow sometime. The bottom of the valve has a line to the driver side. The top has one to the passenger. Better I show you a pic .

 

[BusaDave9]

You only have the brake lines going TO the proportioning valve. NONE going to any wheels. You can buy the tubing, a tube bender and a flare tool.
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Yes you can buy pre-bent tubing. Thats great for the small jobs. But you are better making your own bends. IMHO you won't be able to route the long runs without your own bender. But that's just my opinion.
Here's where the lines go:

The tube bender can cost from $6 to $60.
The flair tool kit only costs $30. Try this link:
Double Flaring Brake Line Tool Kit - 7826, by Astro Pneumatic
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[CJim7]

Building your own brakelines is fun
I carry a bender, flare tool, and cutter along with extra lengths of 1/4" tubing in my Jeep when I go on runs (flare nuts too). Not only have I replaced broken brake lines, but I've had to rebuild a clutch line on the trail also.

Purchasing these tools is definately a good investment...whether you use them right away or not.

 

[GMcGee]

BusaDave9 and CJim7,
Thanks a bunch. I am leaning towards your advice on building my own because I enjoy learning new things and also because I will be moving to Southern Cali in the summer and plan to hit some trails out there.

Three questions though...

1) Does making the lines yourselves turn out to be cheaper than buying a complete kit? How much?
2) Can I find the tubing at any parts store i.e. advance, auto zone, lowes, etc.?
3) What will I need to build them? I know the 1/4" tubing, tube bender, tube cutter, and flaring tool but is there anything else? How do the flare nuts get installed on the lines?

Again, thank you for your patience and persistence in helping me out. I really can not wait to get this Jeep up and running! In the mean time, I took my angle grinder and flap disk to the passenger side and found out that the side panel wasn't as bad as I thought! Score!

 

[BusaDave9]

Three questions though...

1) Does making the lines yourselves turn out to be cheaper than buying a complete kit? How much?
Even if you got a free tow to a brake shop these tools will be much less than the brake repair bill. I always do my own work because tools pay for themselves after only one or 2 uses.
It's true preshaped brake lines would cost less than the tools but you will have a hard time installing them without bending them. Then you will need a tube bender to reshape it back. Get the tools and you will most likely need them again some day.
2) Can I find the tubing at any parts store i.e. advance, auto zone, lowes, etc.?
Yes, most any auto parts store will have the strait tubing.
3) What will I need to build them? I know the 1/4" tubing, tube bender, tube cutter, and flaring tool but is there anything else? How do the flare nuts get installed on the lines?
You will also need the flair fittings like below. Make sure you get the correct sizes. You will need multiple sizes. They do it that way so you don't accedently hook up the rear brakes where the front should go when replacing the master cylinder or other parts. BUT when building your own brake lines it's up to you to plumb it correctly.
Oh yes, also get a set of flair nut wrenches. These fittings are made with a very soft metal so they wont leak. The down side of that is if you use a regular open end wrench you can round off the fittings.

 

[CJim7]

It is cheaper to make the lines yourself, but it is obviously more time consuming.

Cant tell you for sure the savings, but it's only a couple dollars for several feet of tubing at Napa. I imagine Autozone and any other autoparts store will carry the same thing.

Basically all you need is the bender, flare tool, and cutter. The flare nuts slip onto the tubing prior to flaring. Be sure to verify which diameter of tubing you will need to use...whether 3/16, 1/4, 5/16...when you purchase flare nuts and keep these sizes in mind as you use the bender and the flare tool (very important)

 

[BusaDave9]

It is most important to get the correct size of flair fittings. You could bring in the proportioning valve to verify several of the fittings but the auto parts store should know.
Next most important is the size of the tubing but that depends on the fittings. After you have the fittings get the tubing that matches up.
Here is a link that will help you get the job done right.
Making Your Own Brake Lines
And here is what the flair nut wrench looks like.

 

[GMcGee]

Thanks again for the replies! So, I went to the parts store today and picked up a double flaring tool, a set of flare nut wrenches, a tube bender, and tube cutter along with 25' of 1/4" steel tubing and some 1/4" flare nuts. I had a hard time finding flare nuts though! Also, I found that the flare nuts that I bought only fit into one outlet on the prop valve which is this one:

The 1/4" was too big for this outlet:

And this outlet has some waxy type of gunk in it that looks like it has been there a long time which makes me wonder what that is all about:


After all of that, I decided to see if they would at least fit in the hose from the caliper and again no such luck. Any inputs as to the correct sizes? Thanks in advance!

 

[BusaDave9]

You will need a variety of sizes. Every vehicle is like that so you don't get the lines mixed up when working on it.
check out this link:
Summit Racing SUM-220215 - Summit Racing® Inverted Flare Tube Nut Fittings - Show All - SummitRacing.com

As for the gunk. I don't know what that is. I hope the proportioning valve is okay if the brake lines have been open for a while. It's hard to buy OEM proportioning valves because they rarely go bad. But you can get adjustable proportioning valves from Summit, Jegs and other racing outfits.
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