is selling a VIN tag w/title legal?

[rbagley]

I just bought a fiberglass tub with the VIN tag riveted to the firewall and got the matching title (79CJ7). Mine is a 82CJ7. I already have the title for my Jeep so would I be able to sell the title and vin tag to someone else who needs one?

I read some of the other forums about guys who had different tags on their Jeeps than the title, but didn't see specifically if this is really all you would need to make a non titled Jeep legal?

I live in MI, so maybe this is a question for the secretary of state? Thought I would check with y'all. The guy I bought the tub from knew I already had my title and wanted it back after I bought the tub, but wasn't willing to knock off the price of what I got the tub for, so I hung on to it.

Thanks in advance!

 

[bondo258]

Um, you can't sell just the VIN and title it's against federal law.

Now between tub swaps, firewall repairs, frame swaps, and wiper motor repairs, I'm sure a mistake has occurred somewhere along the line.
That doesn't make it right or legal.

Some states want "reconstruction" titles and inspections on the everyday swaps we discuss here.

These days "mistakes" like those are easy to spot since the VIN appears in well over a dozen easy to find places.

CJ's only had a few, and thirty years of mods, weathering and abuse leaves them quite freguently with only one.

The windshield tag is the most frequently checked VIN. In fact, without it you can't register a vehicle.

 

[IOPort51]

You have a tag on the windshield of your CJ??

Um, you can't sell just the VIN and title it's against federal law.

Now between tub swaps, firewall repairs, frame swaps, and wiper motor repairs, I'm sure a mistake has occurred somewhere along the line.
That doesn't make it right or legal.

Some states want "reconstruction" titles and inspections on the everyday swaps we discuss here.

These days "mistakes" like those are easy to spot since the VIN appears in well over a dozen easy to find places.

CJ's only had a few, and thirty years of mods, weathering and abuse leaves them quite freguently with only one.

The windshield tag is the most frequently checked VIN. In fact, without it you can't register a vehicle.

 

[rbagley]

Um, you can't sell just the VIN and title it's against federal law.

that is why I was asking, because I have no idea. The Jeep was getting parted out and the guy gave me the title with the tub.

I bought the fiberglass windshield with the tub so I will have to see if there is a tag on that too. I didn't notice one. I will check my original windshiled frame as well.

I thought I read somewhere on this forum that sometimes there is a stamp on the frame, but not the full VIN. I no longer have the original frame either- I bought a used one in great shape last year. Seems like the vin tag is the only thing left to identify it?

I guess I would have to remove this 79 VIN tag and put the one from my original tub on in its place and check to see if there is a tag anywhere else.

 

[Old Dog]

You have a tag on the windshield of your CJ??

I know I don't.
They lifted the hood to check the one on the firewall here.
How much you wanting for the tag and title?

 

[danc9]

Are you selling the dash and throwing in the title for free? I'm sure it's done all the time. The buyer knows what he is getting, and there is not a great market for stolen 30 year old jeeps. (I could be wrong) That being said, I wouldn't sell the title alone, I would add some parts with it. There was one listed on CL a few weeks ago, he wanted too much for it!
Around here all the state is worried about is getting their money! For those who don't have a vin number, the state will issue one, again they want their money.

IMHO,

DAN

 

[Petescj]

Not necessarily on the windshield. Theres a sheetmetal plate that bolts behind the dashpad that its attached to.It uses the bolts from the wiper motor to attach it. Not sure what year it started but it had to be before '82 cause my Scrambler has it. I think my '78 CJ5 had it as well.

You have a tag on the windshield of your CJ??

I know your front clip is fiberglass. What about the rest? Yours should being its an "83.

I know I don't.
They lifted the hood to check the one on the firewall here.
How much you wanting for the tag and title?

 

[CJ]

Edit -

Stick to the topic - is it legal or not.

Anyone offering to buy or sell VINs in the regular forums face a ban.

 

[Petescj]

Thanks Cj . This is always a touchy subject.

That in itself should be fair warning. I think your on the right track speaking with your state representative. It may take awhile and it may not work in your favor. But it beats going through the Court system, thats for sure.

And when you do get a reply get it in writing and make a copy or 2.

 

[jeepboy45]

Edit -

Stick to the topic - is it legal or not.

Anyone offering to buy or sell VINs in the regular forums face a ban.

REGULAR FORUM?

Is there a black market specific forum I didnt know about? HAHA... just kidding CJ... had to throw a little humor in there.
brian

 

[rbagley]

I checked my original windshield (82CJ7) and saw the VIN number on a medal plate behind the wiper motor like Pete'sCJ said. The fiberglass windshield I just bought (from the 79CJ7) came with the wiper motor, but no VIN tag.

 

[Niedhogg]

I got the original windshield frame when I bought mine, but when we stripped it of parts for the new frame there was no tag on my '79 frame... There is a tag on my dash panel, near the driver's door and it matched the VIN tag that was in the envelope with my title when I bought it.

I really don't understand why it would be illegal to sell a VIN tag WITH a title... the title and VIN are searched in the DOT data bases for stolen vehicles everytime it's registered. I bought my CJ in Pennsylvania, with a New York title.. Pa, has vehicle inspections, but even so, when my son bought his Cherokee S in Pa, all they needed was the title, they didn't ask to see the vehicle, they wrote him up a temporary 30 day tag and sent the new title to Iowa.. which has no inspection or emissions laws... I sent my signed New York title, which was signed and dated 12 yrs prior to my purchase of my CJ from the guy in PA (who was not the guy on the title), anyway, I sent it to my wife in Iowa, she was able to buy my tags and send them back to me to put on the Jeep in Pennsylvania.. I haven't even attached the CJ VIN tag to my YJ tub yet, lol...

...but, this is my point. I can't understand why it would be illegal, and even if it is, there are tons of guys in the classic car business that I am sure do it everyday to save an old car.. Thaere are even a few states that will generate a new title for an old car with just the VIN number.. I don't think it's a big deal whatsoever, to buy a title with a VIN tag.. I'd do it.

 

[Petescj]

There are tons of people out there selling crack too , but that doesnt make it legal. How long of a file do you want baked in your cake anyway?

... there are tons of guys in the classic car business that I am sure do it everyday to save an old car.. I'd do it.

 

[Niedhogg]

There are tons of people out there selling crack too , but that doesnt make it legal. How long of a file do you want baked in your cake anyway?

No bigger than 6", I'd have to be able to hide it when I wasn't using it...


Anyhoo.., it may be illegal, I just don't understand why.. with today's technology and all the DOT data bases being linked these days? And aside from all that, how would it even be possible to illegally aquire both a VIN tag and a title to sell someone anyway? I am probably, and entirely ignorant on the subject, I know, but I really just don't see how a shady character could actually aquire my VIN tag and my title to illegally sell my Jeeps identity, I obviously would know if someone would have jacked either one or both, and would have reported them stolen, how far could they get?

 

[bondo258]

Anyhoo.., it may be illegal, I just don't understand why.

Simply put. Hey, your jeeps nicer than mine. I'm a criminal.

I steal your jeep and put my "legally obtained VIN" on it.

I sell "my (your) jeep" to someone else far away. I have money in my pocket. You have memories, and no chance of finding your baby.

It's a win for everybody right?

Your jeep doesn't exist (your ownership anyway) if the VINs get switched/ removed. That's why VINs are a big deal.

And that's why you should take lots of pictures, and have actual custom stuff on your rig, not just dime-a-dozen bling.

 

[IOPort51]

I once met a guy that started a business with a loan he got on the titles of three Corvettes. All three were totaled with not an engine, Transmission or even unbroken windshield between them. Here in Texas you can not even scrap a car with out a title.

 

[hagar]

When the vehicle dies, the title and vin are supposed to die with the vehicle.
Kinda like people, your DL and SSN are put to rest when you are.
Most classic car guys in my area simply go to DMV, who will prepare and assign a vin and new vin plate to a custom car.
You wouldn't appreciate someone purchasing your ID and running around claiming they are you, would you?

If I was going to do it, I certainly wouldn't be advertising about it...
and besides, when you're in court, you'll have plenty of time to express your thoughts and opinions to the judge, I'm sure he'll 'splain it to you.

 

[Petescj]

No bigger than 6", I'd have to be able to hide it when I wasn't using it...

 

[Niedhogg]

Simply put. Hey, your jeeps nicer than mine. I'm a criminal.

I steal your jeep and put my "legally obtained VIN" on it.

I sell "my (your) jeep" to someone else far away. I have money in my pocket. You have memories, and no chance of finding your baby.

It's a win for everybody right?

Your jeep doesn't exist (your ownership anyway) if the VINs get switched/ removed. That's why VINs are a big deal.

And that's why you should take lots of pictures, and have actual custom stuff on your rig, not just dime-a-dozen bling.

When the vehicle dies, the title and vin are supposed to die with the vehicle.
Kinda like people, your DL and SSN are put to rest when you are.
Most classic car guys in my area simply go to DMV, who will prepare and assign a vin and new vin plate to a custom car.
You wouldn't appreciate someone purchasing your ID and running around claiming they are you, would you?

If I was going to do it, I certainly wouldn't be advertising about it...
and besides, when you're in court, you'll have plenty of time to express your thoughts and opinions to the judge, I'm sure he'll 'splain it to you.

Bondo, we're talking about a VIN with a matching title, not a stolen vehicle and swapping VINs..

And hagar, I'm not advertising anything, I've never done it, this isn't even my thread, but it brought to mind a recent trip to a salvage yard where I came across a Commando that is worth restoring, and even then i thought, "it sure would be nice if I new someone with one of these that was a total pile of scrap and had a title and VIN I could use to retore this thing"... this thread brought this back to mind. All I'm saying is why, in a case like this, would that be a bad thing, in a purely restoration type scenario.. I'm into muscle cars, I've restored a few in my lifetime, and I can't count how many times over the years I've come across a guy selling nothing much more than a firewall, dash and left side A-pillar with a title, not much of a resemblance of a car at all but that VIN and title are for a 1971, 440 6-pack, 4-speed Road Runner.... or a '69 RS SS Camaro... or a '70 SS LS6 Chevelle... with the available aftermarket restoration body pieces that are out there today, a guy could build and bring back a car from the grave, so to speak.. Not much different than a VIN tag WITH a legal matching title.

 

[bondo258]

To even attempt to register a stolen vehicle, you need a clean VIN and title, which is what the OP was asking about selling, and is very illegal.

For the very reason I just explained twice, and you still don't seem to understand.



The "why" doesn't matter, tampering with VINs is a crime with State and Federal penalties.

Removing them is tampering. Swapping VINs is tampering.