Motor timing 180* out?

[Turbogus]

That's the trouble Hedgehog, the dampner timing mark was nowhere in sight. So I bumped the motor using the remote starter button and got the mark to TDC and that's when I noticed the rotor being at No. 3. Still have to check if it's on the compression stroke but seeing photos of other AMC V8 distributor orientation, mine seems to be off about 30*

 

[Lumpy Grits]

No you really don't. Just stick a light on it and see where your timing is right now. Then set the thing to the proper timing. The rotor doesn't need to actually point at cylinder #1, it needs to be pointing at the plug wire post leading to cylinder #1. If the engine runs at all you are close enough to set the dynamic timing. Static timing is for a new engine that you are attempting to get close, dynamic timing is the way to go on a running engine. You don't need to put any more mechanical operations between you and a running Jeep than is absolutely needed.

THIS X2!
Just hook your t'light to #1 wire and set it.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

You aren't showing me anything I don't already know. I can barely see my timing mark thru a tiny hole between the heater hose and AC bracket. No matter what you are going to need to see the timing marks to properly time your engine. If it is running you are close enough to time with your timing light. To make it easier highlight your timing mark on the balancer with, paint or a crayon. Also, it would be nice if you could get a remote timing light or one with the light on an extended arm to get the light close to the timing marks.

Honestly, your timing is close enough, don't worry about exactly where your rotor is pointing. It could easily be off on purpose. For instance, my DUI distributor can't be timed with the rotor pointing at the #1 cylinder due to interference with the power steering pump. So I moved the dist. over 1 timing gear tooth to rotate the dist. 1 gear clockwise. From your posts it seems like you get all hung up with the minutia and loose sight of the realities of mechanical devices.

By the way, if that is your engine compartment ..... nice, very nice indeed. Yours is exactly the reason I don't like the MSD system. Lots of parts and wires everywhere cluttering up an otherwise neat engine compartment. I'm yet to be convinced the MSD system is better than the DUI or HEI system.

 

[Hedgehog]

On a second look at your engine, it should be a piece of cake to see your timing marks. Where I have an AC pump in the way you have nothing ... a clear shot to your marks. That is unless there is something different about the front of your engine that I can't see.

Edit: Ahhh I see now and looking back in the thread, that nice neat engine is not yours, my mistake. So, what are all the wire loom covers hiding in your engine? Yours is likely the way it is to keep the vacuum advance tubing from hitting the fan belt.

 

[Turbogus]

I failed to post that when I ran a timing light on this there was no sign of the dampners timing mark from anywhere visible from the top of the motor (that I'd used white paint on to make it show up) I've yet to see if the light will show the mark from the underside of the engine compartment.

Those looms are for the Countor cooling fan wiring (and fog/driving lights)

 

[Hedgehog]

What kind of timing light do you have or did you use. Mine is from HF and i's adjustable for spark. So, it's easy to not have the timing mark show up until your timing is darned near exactly right. Did you, 1-remove and plug the vacuum line going to the dist. 2- loosen up the dist. base until it turns. 3- hit the timing mark or timing comb with the light. 4- turn the dist. until the mark shows up. 5- either set the timing light to say 8* and set the dist. with the mark on 0* or set the mark on the 8* spot on the timing comb. 6- tighten the dist. If you can get a partner to turn and tighten the dist. it will take all of a minute to properly set your timing.

 

[Turbogus]

Thanks for the reminders Hedgehog, I'm very familiar with dynamic timing but I got a little confused at setting up the distributor and it's initial timing. Finally got tethering to work on my laptop and watched a youtube vid.

 

[Hedgehog]

but your jeep is running ................... I'm so sorry, obviously you want to continue down the road you are on and I'm confused as to why when it's so easy. Start the engine and time it with your timing light ......... I just don't really understand.

 

[Turbogus]

It was running but with the plug fouling,I'm suspecting that the timing is indeed off, but I cannot find the dampner mark using the timing light so until I correct the distributor installation I'd better hold off.

 

[Hedgehog]

Okay, after taking care of the 2 & 4 plug wires and moving their location to over the intake manifold, and I finalized the carburator and finally a week later I started it up this morning and after getting fuel from the tank to the carb, it idled smooth and strong. No bucking or backfire and no smoke from the tailpipeIf thing work well tonight I'll set the timing and recheck the no. 1 spark plug.

BUT according to the above post the engine IS running!!!!!!

 

[Hedgehog]

I've been thinking, are you thinking that your harmonic balancer, there fore your timing mark might be wrong? I.E. 180* out?

 

[Lumpy Grits]

I've been thinking, are you thinking that your harmonic balancer, there fore your timing mark might be wrong? I.E. 180* out?

That can happen on the Jeep AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l 6cyl.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

Can the V8 balancer be put on 180* out?

So, fire it up and shine the timing light on the bottom of the engine/harmonic balancer. If the mark appears nearly 180* from the timing mark comb, well oops. It's time to reset the harmonic balancer.

 

[Turbogus]

Thanks for continuing to post LG and Hedgehog,
Originally I thought that Krampus might've cast a spell to throw my motor 180* out. This is not a new motor so the dampner pulley should be in the stock position, given as theres' a notch and key to locate them when rebuilding (at least that's the case on SBC's that I've rebuilt in the past). The other night when I put a timing light to the top of the motor and failed to find the timing mark I was called by my housefrau to dinner. Of late the Christmas ruch has kept me at work 11 - 12 hours per day. I get Christmas Day off and if I can drag out of bed I'll have another look for the timing mark underneath and side to side while running also I'm going to move the distributor away from that heater hose.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Can the V8 balancer be put on 180* out?

So, fire it up and shine the timing light on the bottom of the engine/harmonic balancer. If the mark appears nearly 180* from the timing mark comb, well oops. It's time to reset the harmonic balancer.

I have seen the inner core in it's correct 'keyed' position, and the out body (where the timing marks are)has rotated.
Just an FYI is all-
LG

 

[Turbogus]

Yeah, on some GM engines I've seen the inner rubber dampner squeeze out from between the inner and outer rings.

 

[Hedgehog]

My vacuum advance is very much in the same location as yours is. For my DUI to time up properly AND clear the power steering pump it NEEDED to go where it is. Only move it if you have to. I see no conflict in the pictures you are showing.

You have an old engine so it wouldn't be entirely a waste to simply replace the harmonic balancer.

 

[Turbogus]

yeah, I'd only go that far if I was doing a complete rebuild ~ NOT going to happen on my FPL budget.

 

[Hedgehog]

Well then good luck .............................

 

[Lumpy Grits]

yeah, I'd only go that far if I was doing a complete rebuild ~ NOT going to happen on my FPL budget.

Guess that ends it then.......
LG