Opinions please - rebuild engine or take it to a shop?

[CMack]

I'm in need of your learned opinions. I'm in the midst of a frame off rebuild of my 1960 with the four cylinder engine. Question of the day is, do I rebuild the engine myself (rings, bearings, lap the valves, etc.) or take it to a shop? I've got a quote for around $500 to do the whole thing. I have average skills, fair to middlin set of tools, and enough confidence to get elbows deep but I've never tackled an engin before.

Self or shop? Thanks in advance.

 

[hagar]

$500 sounds way to cheap.
How was it running prior to this point?
Smoking, knocking, using oil, burnt valve or two????
Most folks don't have the micrometers needed to measure the cylinder bores and crankshaft journals. Do you?
It really depends on what you find when you open it up.
The F-head blocks are prone to cracks between cooling passages and valve seat areas. The block should be checked for cracks before any machining is started regardless.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Bet the $500.00 is labor at best, and not including parts.
I have rebuilt many engines in my life. BUT-I have a shop do ALL of the machine work like cyl boring, line boring the mains and cam bearings along with valve seat replacement etc.
Do you know how to 'time' the camshaft to the crankshaft?
Do you know how to check bearing fit for oil clearance?
I would STRONGLY recommend you watch a couple of engines being torn down and rebuilt before you decide to to this on your own. May sound harsh-I speak from 50+ years of do'n this type of work.
Do you have the torque wrenches that you'll need?
You do know that your will replace every single bolt on the old engine with new.
Good head bolts ain't cheap.
Respectfully,
LG

 

[jzak]

When I was looking at rebuilding my Tranny, a couple mechanics were quoting me $800 just for the labor, so $500 to rebuild a entire engine sounds expensive.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

When I was looking at rebuilding my Tranny, a couple mechanics were quoting me $800 just for the labor, so $500 to rebuild a entire engine sounds expensive.

HUH?
It's to cheap to be true at $500.00......
LG

 

[jzak]

HUH?
It's to cheap to be true at $500.00......
LG

Sorry, my mind stopped working there for a second. I meant that a quote of $500 for a complete engine rebuild seems way to low. My Bad!

Is that quote just for the labor, or does that include the rebuild kit? Just the kit can cost $500 or more.

 

[Neuner]

Agree with the others. I would have a shop do it to get the tolerances correct but I'd be very leery of someone charging so little even for labor only.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Sorry, my mind stopped working there for a second. I meant that a quote of $500 for a complete engine rebuild seems way to low. My Bad!

Is that quote just for the labor, or does that include the rebuild kit? Just the kit can cost $500 or more.

NP-My brain cell takes lots of un-announced 'vacations' too.
LG

 

[CJim7]

$500 sounds like a backyard mechanic. A master kit alone is over $200.

I had my first two engines rebuilt by someone else.....to the tune of around $1500-$2000 each. Then I thought "how hard could it be?"

So when I rebuilt my 401, I only had the shop do the machine work (cylinder hone, line bore, head reconditioning, etc). I let them know specifically I would do all the reassembly myself. Because of the cost of 401 parts, the machine work, master kit, pistons, etc were still well over $1000.

I read everything I could find on torque specs for my engine, do's and don'ts, tricks, tips, etc. and dove in head first. It wasn't that hard, but it was unnerving the first time I fired it up wondering if it was going to come apart

You will need some things you wouldn't normally have for any other kind of work: ring compressor, engine stand, cherry picker, good torques head set (bearing caps) good torque wrench, valve spring compressor...etc. I had to borrow or rend some of this stuff.

It was a good experience though.

 

[hdgapeach]

Cheapest rebuild I ever completed had over $600 in machine work done to it......and that was in the mid '80s! Did the build myself and spent a little over two grand in hard parts & machining. All that in a small block bow tie 350 (meaning - it don't get much cheaper than that!).

An engine as old as what you're dealing with should go straight to a machine shop to be checked for tolerances, cracks, squareness, etc. If everything you sent to be checked is deemed worthy of rebuilding, the evaluation combined with work done could easily eat upwards of a grand justifiably.

A good reputable machine shop is priceless, in my opinion.

 

[CMack]

Good advice all around. No one said "hell it's easy. Go for it". Kind of what I was thinking, but I didn't want to give up without checking.

Thanks.

 

[JimsCJ5]

Building it yourself is the only way to learn. Just make sure you find a good machinist and tell him what you want to do. The machinist can measure everything and make recommendations. He can probably get the parts you need a little cheaper too and steer you away from buying . The good ones won't mind you doing the assembly yourself and will make sure you don't make any obvious mistakes along the way. Won't be cheap though...

 

[tarry99]

Good advice all around. No one said "hell it's easy. Go for it". Kind of what I was thinking, but I didn't want to give up without checking.

Thanks.

Building it yourself is the only way to learn. Just make sure you find a good machinist and tell him what you want to do. The machinist can measure everything and make recommendations. He can probably get the parts you need a little cheaper too and steer you away from buying . The good ones won't mind you doing the assembly yourself and will make sure you don't make any obvious mistakes along the way. Won't be cheap though...

CMack..........it is easy if you have the measuring tools and the basic understanding of the rebuild process..............More than likely you'll have to rely on the machinist first to measure all your parts ( unless you can ). Things like cylinder bore, how flat is the deck, Pistons, Crankshaft , rods & camshaft. The cylinder head , valves , springs and rockers will also need attention.
After measuring and looking at all the parts the results will set the direction of how the re-build will proceed.

Assembly of the components can be done by you.......but it still requires having certain measuring tools for setting crank end play, ring sizing ETC and yet again a basic understanding of bearing, piston and ring, seal , camshaft and timing gear installation.

Cleanliness is important........If your motor is going through a complete overhaul have the machine shop boil out the block........when you get it back you should also do a through washing of all the components prior to assembly.......................as mentioned above it may not be cheap........but the education is priceless!

 

[Fastatv]

I'm in need of your learned opinions. I'm in the midst of a frame off rebuild of my 1960 with the four cylinder engine. Question of the day is, do I rebuild the engine myself (rings, bearings, lap the valves, etc.) or take it to a shop? I've got a quote for around $500 to do the whole thing. I have average skills, fair to middlin set of tools, and enough confidence to get elbows deep but I've never tackled an engin before.

Self or shop? Thanks in advance.

I have read all the posts in this thread and I think my opinion may be a little different than some of the other fellows. About 6 years ago, I tore down a 454, purchased all the required parts, had a local Machine Shop do all the machining work. The same shop offered to build the 454 for me, for $275 labor....and a warranty. I thought that was inexpensive and it concerned me a bit, however, the shop had built many of them...a walk in the park for them so to speak. I let them do it and they did a great job.