Rusty, I think I'm loosing my nerve

[Hedgehog]

Rusty is my new/old Transmission . Rusty2 is a T-18a that was removed from a CJ, please don't ask it is a '79 CJ T-18a, and left oilless outside in the weather. She's a little rusty, but salvageable. Essentially a rebuild is required. I removed the Transfer Case , it's a Rusty old thing too. But new gears will be going in her so I'm not terribly worried about her.

Back to Rusty. As said earlier, the cases were separated, the throw out bearing/input shaft bearing retainer is removed along with the Transfer Case gear retainer nut. There is where I've stopped. Taking a Transmission like a T-18 isn't difficult ... if you have really great snap ring pliers from Snap On, but OMG they are expensive. Honestly I'm loosing my nerve. A trip to the Transmission rebuild shop3-4 weeks and a $400.00 bill (He already sold me the rebuild kit) would bring a nice clean Transmission to my door complete with a warrantee. But the I wouldn't be able to say I'd done it all by myself. Advice?

I am under a time crunch, with a Transfer Case to rebuild, a dash to complete and drive shafts. Then there's finding a new 11" clutch cover (AMC), 11" ford 1 1/6" shaft 10 spline disk (Ford) and throw out bearing (Ford)

 

[mriplaybass]

I assume you are talking about the snap rings on the main shaft bearings. Yup! a real PITA! I only have the snap ring pliers that fit the smaller rings with holes in them, but the main bearing snap rings in a T-18 , if I remember correctly, the ends are square cut with no holes, kind of like a piston ring. Hmm, I wonder if a piston ring spreader could be made to fit in there? I'll have to try that on the next one! Anyway, I tried a number of different ways to remove the rings. What I eventually tried that worked was to just use my standard snap ring pliers to open up the ring a bit. Once I got it opened far enough, I was able to insert a small flat blade screw driver between the ring and the ring grove. Once the ring could no longer snap back into the grove, I was able to work another flat blade screw driver around the shaft until the ring popped free.

 

[Hedgehog]

I've got a snap ring plier that does a fair job of opening the ring. I just don't seem to have enough hands to do the screw driver thing. But I will admit that it was very late at night and I wasn't terribly serious about holding a flash light in my mouth while using the pliers and a couple of screw drivers. There was an attempt not to stretch the old ring, but what the heck, the rebuilding kit has replacement rings. I kept remembering way back when, working on a Ford T-18 without decent snap ring pliers and scratching the heck out of the main shaft. I was ashamed of the result, but that Transmission ran for many years, until the jeep was sold without a single glitch.

I suppose farming this out would just be taking a little weight off my plate.

 

[hagar]

No shame in having a known, reputable shop rebuild your Transmission for you.
I happen to have that resource where I live; I could do it myself but why fool around with it if you have the $$ ?

 

[Lumpy Grits]

" A man has got to know his limitations"
The way I learn'd when there was a high chance of FUBAR, was to watch an expert first.
Any chance you could watch the 'pro' do the rebuild and maybe take notes and pictures? You'll be surprised what little tricks you'll learn.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

Lumpy & hagar - Well, I found my nerve once again. The main shaft is out and it really doesn't look bad at all. Now to pull it all apart, clean the parts and inspect them.

Here's a question for you guys. The bottom gears look very good and they spin almost effortlessly. No roughness or gear grumble of any kind. Should I continue and pull the bottom gears and replace the bearings or since all seems well leave it be? ....... I suppose as long as I'm in there it's time to replace the gears as well.

 

[hagar]

Do it once.
Do it right.
You don't want to have to pull it out and do it again.

 

[hole]

Ditto I went to a local tool supply place to get the needed snap ring pliers when I did mine, spent less than $40 for an American made tool

 

[Peanut Butter]

What has worked for me is the screwdriver thing with a twist. Use a flat blade to create a space between the ring and the grove it sits in. It is important to keep this in place. The use a pick to push the ring up. You will need to slowly move the screwdriver and the pick around the grove little bits at a time. Once you get all the way around the snap ring should be able to come out fairly easily. I got my set of picks from HF: Pick and Hook Set 7 Pc The hook one works very well in this situation.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

HH-Do a FULL rebuild, and set all shaft/gear end-play specs to minimum.
Would you want to post a 'how-to' thread on this project? I would like to see one.
Good luck
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

Yeah I was straying down the path towards cheating on this project. I'll go ahead and do the full monty on this one and strip it down to bare bones.

Now this upsets me to no end! My pliers (also American made) worked very well for their job. The ring was expanded, screw drivers were inserted, the ring was giving up nicely. That was until the very last 1/4". The ring popped out and I'm happy, that was until I noticed that a small section of the ring slot popped off the shaft. Errrrrrrr! now I'm thinking, why didn't you just tap the free portion of the ring with a hammer, the last stubborn bit would have jumped out of the slot. All in all I'm sure the small missing piece won't bother anything, the new ring surely will not pp out because of it, but Errrrrr! I hate making mistakes like that.

Then there was the fun of pulling the main bearings. Tap tap here and tap tap there and the front bearing was clear of the Transmission housing. But still on the shaft. I had no stock puller so out came my welder, yes my welder. The rebuilding kit has new main bearings in it so the old ones were to be trashed. So I welded a couple nuts on the bearing and my puller popped the bearing right off. THen to deal with the back bearing. Since the nut worked well on the front bearing I tried the same on the back. No luck there. The nuts simply broke the brittle hardened bearing race right off. But I did get it out of the case easily enough. Trash bearings! Out came the cut off wheel and I cut the darned bearing off. No damage, but I'm not especially proud of the technique. I'm surprised to find that ol' Rusty isn't really as rusty as I/we had feared. The gears look good, naturally there is some rounding of the first gear engagement side teeth, no chips. In the bottom of the case there is about 1/2" of rusty oily steel shard filled sludge at the bottom of the case. That is to be expected though. I can't help but wonder if the oil was ever changed in this poor Transmission .

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Have you soak'd the bearing race areas with penetrating oil, and let it sit out in your desert Sun for a day?
Think'n those races are rust'd to the shaft.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

The rear bearing has proven to be very stubborn. My bearing separator did not prove to be man enough for the job. But, a dermal tool with a cutoff wheel can not be denied, even with the hardest of metals. You don't really need to cut the really hard metals all the way through either. Cut darned near all the way, then support the bottom of the bearing .... The outer bearing and ball bearings are easy to cut, this is about cutting the center from the shaft .... a few good swats with a decent hammer and a chisel will crack the bearing loose. I like to cut the bearing in two places before using the hammer. This gives the bearing a place to open up on top and pinch down on bottom. Frankly I'm beginning to feel a bit like a Neanderthal ..... "Argh, me thinks it time to use rock now an thump 'em real good."

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Never underestimate the therapeutic value of 'brute-force'.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

One thing about being 57, my existing inner brute force guy seems to be out to lunch a lot more than he used to be. Lazy skum......

Thinking ahead. The case will be in need of a really GOOD cleaning. Before the hammering and cutting began the case was covered in Simple Green then power washed. No, my power washer isn't one of those that can peal paint, but the case was, lets say "cleaner". Now I will want to get down to bare metal. Sure a wire wheel on an angle grinder will get the job done. Frankly I am so very tired of using that darned thing I'm looking for something easier, maybe something with more chemical action something a little less Neanderthal. "Me want 'em clean, clean hard to find good bubbling lava flowing like waters these days." Does anybody have a reasonable chemical bath for cleaning up a dirt, oil, grass, cow sh... poop and more grease mess?

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Have the case sand-blasted. Makes a good surface for paint to grip to.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

Well yeah, sand blasting ... not exactly what I was asking for, but it certainly would get the job done, thank you

 

[Hedgehog]

Well so much for that. As it turned out, the only snap ring I had trouble with was the very first one. The rest just popped right off. The gears and such came right off the shaft. After removing the flat metal holding the bottom shafts in place it was easy to drift the shafts right out. Now to clean everything up, both the guts and the case. Everything is moving along smoothly so far.

 

[mriplaybass]

Glad to hear things are working out!

 

[Petescj]

Oven cleaner worked great for me. Can't remember who but someone here told me to try it. Grab a couple cans from the dollar store and enjoy