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Second attempt at starting 360

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Second attempt at starting 360
Hey Germy,

Stick with it. You will get it eventually. You have more perseverance than anyone I know.

Again, I don't know anything about your engine, but how you torque the bolts is important. Your basically squeezing one V shape into another V shape.

Start in the middle of the manifold and torque 2 opposite bolts to 5 ft. lbs. Then move forward and torque the next 2 opposite bolts to 5. Then move to the rear of middle and do the next 2. Then to the front etc. until you have gotten them all. Then do it all over again at 10 ft lbs and keep increasing the torque until you get too the proper spec.

But remember this. The first bolts you do will become loose as you do the bolts next to them. So when you have gotten to the proper torque, do them all again at least 2 more times. You will notice some may continue to turn a little bit. When you can go over all of them at the proper spec and nothing moves at all you are done.

You are squeezing a V into a V. If you tighten one bolt all the way first it will cock the intake to one side and may never seal right after that. And as mentioned use a small amount of silicone on the entire gasket and wipe the mating surfaces with paint thinner or something to make sure they are clean so the silicone sticks.

NOW GO GET TO IT! :)

Edit: And I think you may have 2 plug wires crossed. Double check your firing order.
 
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View attachment 13760

Found this. And you are correct and i think that is my problem. I torqued once leaving the first center four loose. Thant is where leak is. Thank you. Im checking compression again on new head gasket too. Hopefully doing my torque twice held. Yeah, ill just keep plugging away. Im loving taking it sll apart but at the same time i eould like to drive it worry free someday
 
Edit
 
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Re assembled top end as precisely as i could. Going to let it set overnight. If i have to take it apart again I'm gonna cry
View attachment 13800
 
Started today and is just as terrible as before. Stepping back. May just pull it and rebuild totally.
 
So do you still have the intake leaking, or is it just still backfiring?
 
Intake leaking and a miss sound. Whistles too.
 
Whoa soldier!! Stand down.

Taking the motor apart and putting it back together without knowing the problem is like throwing darts at a wall behind you. You will seldom (if ever) hit the target. You have to first identify the problem, then decide if you have to tear the whole thing down to fix it.

So fill in the blanks for me:

1. We have an anti freeze leak in the middle of the intake, right?

2. The engine runs badly, is whistling, and missing, right?

3. Just for info., why did you just replace the head gasket?

Analysis:

The missing, leaking, and whistling all could be leading to the same thing. A bad intake or gasket or surfaces or something along those lines. If the intake is leaking anti-freeze it is not sealing up good. If the coolant passages don't seal well the intake passages probably don't seal good either.

So not only are you leaking antifreeze, you are probably sucking air into a cylinder or two and that could be causing the erratic running and poping in the exhaust.

First, determin exactly where the coolant leak really is. Is it the gasket area? Are you sure the intake is not cracked in that area? Is it the correct part number intake for your engine? Verify. Are you sure it is not leaking from a plug or fitting on the top of the manifold?

If you come to the conclusion that it is the gasket area pull the intake. You need to first clean everything spotless and inspect the leak area. Cracks?? Using a bright light inspect for cracks. Look closely. (If you torqued the two inner bolts to spec without doing the others it coud very well have cracked the intake.) Then get a straight edge, or a big carpenters square and lay it skinny edge along the intake gasket surfaces. Use a flashlight to shine light under the square. It should touch all the way. No gaps. Also get a .003 or a .005 feeler gage and see if you can slide it under the straight edge in the leak area. These surfaces need to be flat and true. Do the same on the head side. Is it flat and true?

If it is flat and true, then inspect the gasket mating surfaces. They should be flat. No gouges in the surfaces, no deep scratches etc. Look for any imperfection that can cause a leak across the gasket surface. If you still can't find a problem yet do this.

With the intake gasket surfaces clean. Set the intake on the engine without any gaskets. Remember you are puting a V shape into another V shape. Once the intake is there, push it to one side so it is tight against the head, either one. Then inspect the gap between the intake and the opposite head. The gap should be equal distance at the top of the gasket surface compared to the bottom of the gasket surface. In other words, does the V angle of the intake match the V angle of the head? Check both sides of the intake.

Post up results.
 
S76 said:
Whoa soldier!! Stand down.

Taking the motor apart and putting it back together without knowing the problem is like throwing darts at a wall behind you. You will seldom (if ever) hit the target. You have to first identify the problem, then decide if you have to tear the whole thing down to fix it.

So fill in the blanks for me:

1. We have an anti freeze leak in the middle of the intake, right?

2. The engine runs badly, is whistling, and missing, right?

3. Just for info., why did you just replace the head gasket?

Analysis:

The missing, leaking, and whistling all could be leading to the same thing. A bad intake or gasket or surfaces or something along those lines. If the intake is leaking anti-freeze it is not sealing up good. If the coolant passages don't seal well the intake passages probably don't seal good either.

So not only are you leaking antifreeze, you are probably sucking air into a cylinder or two and that could be causing the erratic running and poping in the exhaust.

First, determin exactly where the coolant leak really is. Is it the gasket area? Are you sure the intake is not cracked in that area? Is it the correct part number intake for your engine? Verify. Are you sure it is not leaking from a plug or fitting on the top of the manifold?

If you come to the conclusion that it is the gasket area pull the intake. You need to first clean everything spotless and inspect the leak area. Cracks?? Using a bright light inspect for cracks. Look closely. (If you torqued the two inner bolts to spec without doing the others it coud very well have cracked the intake.) Then get a straight edge, or a big carpenters square and lay it skinny edge along the intake gasket surfaces. Use a flashlight to shine light under the square. It should touch all the way. No gaps. Also get a .003 or a .005 feeler gage and see if you can slide it under the straight edge in the leak area. These surfaces need to be flat and true. Do the same on the head side. Is it flat and true?

If it is flat and true, then inspect the gasket mating surfaces. They should be flat. No gouges in the surfaces, no deep scratches etc. Look for any imperfection that can cause a leak across the gasket surface. If you still can't find a problem yet do this.

With the intake gasket surfaces clean. Set the intake on the engine without any gaskets. Remember you are puting a V shape into another V shape. Once the intake is there, push it to one side so it is tight against the head, either one. Then inspect the gap between the intake and the opposite head. The gap should be equal distance at the top of the gasket surface compared to the bottom of the gasket surface. In other words, does the V angle of the intake match the V angle of the head? Check both sides of the intake.

Post up results.
Click to expand...

No antifreeze leak, just whistling and bogs down when i spray ether there. I replaced head gasket because passenger bank was all 140, drivers, 120 and one 115. On a note of valves, i did not pre soak the lifters. Well thats why i did head gasket. I know its the intake. When i cleaned its surfaces after the replacement gaskets, i used a wire cup brush to get it clean. Did i damaage the aluminum possibly?
 
Ill take it of tomorrow and straight edge it
 
OK. I really would not have pulled the head on a new engine with those numbers. Valves are maybe not be touching the seats exactly square and will probably improve in time. But that is neither here nor there.

If you spray ether and the motor changes you definitely have an intake leak. But you know that. There must be a problem with the intake. The motor will never come close to running right with a leak like that. But you know that.

Can you better define the area when you spray the ether? Are you sure it's not the carb base gasket, or if the carb is used how about the throttle shaft where it sticks out of the side of the carb. Is that loose or worn? When you spray with a can of ether it is a big broad spray and may be going in somewhere you don't realize. Can you get a plastic straw on the can so you are only spraying one little area to help define the problem?

Can you put up some close up shots of the intake area in question at different angles? That may help.

Hang in there Germy. You will get it. And learn alot in the process.

Bob
 
Ok, after running 1.5 miles of electric horse fence, i ll start the process. I will use a straw and pinpoint, mark and photo. I am confident that the intake is warped. The valves makes sense, i didnt pre soak lifters, so they will get better with time. Is the above firing order correct?
 
mtnwhlr said:
Yes
Click to expand...

Just make sure the other ends are on the correct spark plugs.

Not soaking the lifters before installation is not a big deal. They should pump up and self purge quickly.
 
Ok thanks guys. I have a question before i take the intake off. Lets say its warped. I buy a new one. If it doesnt match angle of heads once i get gasket off, then what? The intake says edelbrock performer amc. Could me using a wire cup brush on the aluminum have scratched it. Im just concerned because this last time i used rtv all around and it still leaks!? Weird.
 
If anyone can chime in, please do. I want this to be the last assembly


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
If you did damage with the wire brush that would be unusual unless there was a corroded spot that allowed too much material to be removed. When you do the straight edge test that will tell the story.

Just guessing I suspect there may be a crack radiating from that area that the sealant did not cover. If the new manifold is for that engine, and the engine has not been decked a lot it should fit.

Remember when installing the new manifold to torque it in small increments. Torquing the 2 center bolts to spec without tightening any others could cause it to crack in the middle.

Let us know what you find when you do the straight edge test and inspect closely for cracks.
 
View attachment 13869

Straight edge revealed nothing. It is true all around. I torqued to 35 instead of 25, misread on edelbrocks page. Crushing gasket?
 
Used a second straight edge to confirm
 
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