T-18 Questions

T-18 Questions
Rescue Diver said:
Yeah, that's about right, but when it's bolted to a heavy arse cast iron Dana 20 Transfer Case and you're laying on your back trying to install it by yourself, it feels like a ton! :eek:

I've installed a whole lot of trannies in my life, and that combo was by far the heaviest.
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Comparable to other heavy duty truck transmissions.
The chevy SM465 weighs 175lbs.
The NP 435 weighs 135lbs.
 
Ford Versions
The Ford T-18 has a 1-1/16" diameter, ten spline input shaft that has a stick-out of 6-1/2" from the front face of the Transmission . The pilot tip of the Transmission measures ~17mm. The front bearing retainer flange measures ~4.85" and the bearing retainer tube is 1.43" in diameter. The front bolt pattern is the symmetrical Ford "butterfly" pattern; roughly 8-1/2" wide by 6-5/16" tall. The input shaft stick-out length is 6-1/2". Checking these dimensions will verify that the Transmission is a 1966 or newer model, precluding it from being the T-98 .
The Ford versions can also be identified by its casting numbers cast into the driver's side of the case, commonly "T-18 -1E" for earlier units and "13-01" for later units. From 1966 until 1978, many T18s used a T-98 shifter assembly. 1979 and newer T18s used a three fork shift cover assembly that shifts reverse gear directly. Because of this, reverse location is on the opposite side of neutral than the earlier version ('66 to '78). Earlier versions reverse gears shifts over and up - later versions shift over and down.
The Ford T-18 features a power-take-off (PTO) port on the passenger side of the case.
The last years of the T-18 featured a direct-drive (4th gear) switch to signal a lean or cruise mode operation to the Engine Control Module (ECM). Later Ford T-18 's and T19's used an aluminum front bearing retainer in lieu of the earlier and longer wearing cast iron retainers. We can supply new cast iron retainers to replace these.
If you can locate the production ID tag on your Ford T-18 top cover, you will find a lettering code akin to “D7T3...”. This may help identify the year of Transmission , as Ford uses the first letter to designate the decade (C=’60s, D=’70s, etc.) and the year is called out by the second digit.
A certainly rare version of the Ford T-18 was the T18B, as provided in diesel trucks from 1967-1972, featuring higher gear ratios in 1st thru 3rd gears (4.32, 2.26, 1.51). This Transmission will be very rarely encountered, but individuals should be aware of the possiblity.



From: The Borg-Warner T18 & T19 Transmissions - Novak Conversions


Gives you some identification info, in case you go check it out...:cool:


:chug:
 
lots of good points being made here. and here i thought whis would be a walk in the park lol

i did not realize how many variations on the T-18 exist (i actually thought just one heh)

and somehow i always tend to forget about what side the driveshaft needs to be on the Transfer Case .

the guy i was talking to on the one T-18 doesnt know about a granny gear...he seemed a bit uneducated and just kept calling it the "rock crusher tranny". he also about 50 miles from me and wont sell it by itself...must take the tcase and bell housing too which i have no interest in.


i think im going to have to put on my big boy pants and be a little more patient. my current SR4 is alright...other than refusing to go into 2nd from time to time....but, ive decided i want the T-18 ....and the T-18 i will have...as soon as i find a proper one.


im going to cross my fingers and start looking hot and heavy for one that came from a jeep as my first choice. if i cant find that then i will consider others..

is my Dana 300 plenty fine for the T-18 ? or, should i consider trading that out also?
 
stoney bones said:
the guy i was talking to on the one T-18 doesnt know about a granny gear...he seemed a bit uneducated and just kept calling it the "rock crusher tranny".
is my Dana 300 plenty fine for the T-18 ? or, should i consider trading that out also?
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I always thought Muncie made what was called a rock crusher? My brother ran a "Muncie Rock Crusher" in his hopped up 67 Chevelle.

Your Dana 300 won't bolt to a stock Jeep T-18 because the Dana 300 has a round bolt pattern and the Jeep version of the T-18 has what's called the Texas bolt pattern because it's kind of shaped like a backwards Texas.

If you're lucky enough to find an original Jeep T-18 , try to buy it with the stock Dana 20 Transfer Case so no adapter will be required. The Dana 20 is plenty tough, and you could sell your Dana 300 to reclaim the extra money.

If you want to stick with your Dana 300 , I'd just scout around for a much easier to find Ford truck T-18 with the 6.32 first gear since you will need an adapter anyway.
 
Rescue Diver said:
I always thought Muncie made what was called a rock crusher? My brother ran a "Muncie Rock Crusher" in his hopped up 67 Chevelle.

Your Dana 300 won't bolt to a stock Jeep T-18 because the Dana 300 has a round bolt pattern and the Jeep version of the T-18 has what's called the Texas bolt pattern because it's kind of shaped like a backwards Texas.

If you're lucky enough to find an original Jeep T-18 , try to buy it with the stock Dana 20 Transfer Case so no adapter will be required. The Dana 20 is plenty tough, and you could sell your Dana 300 to reclaim the extra money.

If you want to stick with your Dana 300 , I'd just scout around for a much easier to find Ford truck T-18 with the 6.32 first gear since you will need an adapter anyway.
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sounds like some good advice. thank you.




edit: just found a original jeep T-18 with 6.32 first they are asking $750! though it does look quite clean and it comes with a bell housing. they also have the original Dana 20 out of a scout and asking 250. do those prices sound reasonable?
 
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If you are set on keeping your Dana 300 TCase that's fine but it's not going to be as easy. In that case your best option is a ford T-18 . I've done that swap. To mate the Ford T-18 to your Jeep Bellhousing it is easy. You just need to drill and tap 4 holes. You will need a ford friction plate to fit the input shaft of the tranny. You will need a jeep pressure plate.
Now for the TCase. As I said before I would use the Ford NP208 but then you would need to change the lengths of the drive shafts. Call a local shop for prices but it shouldn't be too much. You can get new drive shafts from Tom Woods for about $200 a piece.
To mate the ford T-18 to the Jeep Dana 200 Tcase you need a kit. I got mine from Advanced Adapters but Novak sells one too. The kit has a new main (output) shaft to go into the T-18 . Then you will also have an adapter that goes between the Tcase and the T-18 .

Don't get a Jeep T-18 unless you get the TCase.
 
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BusaDave9 said:
stoney bones just use the ford T-18 and the NP208. It already comes with a TCase. That's why I said it would be an easy swap.
If you are set on keeping your Dana 300 TCase that's fine but it's not going to be as easy. In that case your best option is a ford T-18 . I've done that swap. To mate the Ford T-18 to your Jeep Bellhousing it is easy. You just need to drill and tap 4 holes. You will need a ford friction plate to fit the input shaft of the tranny. You will need a jeep pressure plate.
Now for the TCase. As I said before I would use the Ford NP208 but then you would need to change the lengths of the drive shafts. Call a local shop for prices but it shouldn't be too much. You can get new drive shafts from Tom Woods for about $200 a piece.
To mate the ford T-18 to the Jeep Dana 200 Tcase you need a kit. I got mine from Advanced Adapters but Novak sells one too. The kit has a new main (output) shaft to go into the T-18 . Then you will also have an adapter that goes between the Tcase and the T-18 .

Don't get a Jeep T-18 it won't mate to your Dana 300 TCase and who knows if it will mate to your engine. Jeep T18s are not standardized like Ford T18s. You may need a CJ bellhousing from the '70s. A FSJ will have a longer input shaft on the T-18 .
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The FORD NP 208 has a drivers side output shaft.
He would have to swap his front axle to make the Ford NP208 work.
Plus he will probably need drive shaft mods & a fabbed Transfer Case mount.;)
 
LongHorn said:
The FORD NP 208 has a drivers side output shaft.
He would have to swap his front axle to make the Ford NP208 work.
Plus he will probably need drive shaft mods & a fabbed Transfer Case mount.;)
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You are so right Longhorn.
I saw that right after posting. I changed my post but not fast enough.
 
Your right on Busa, about the FORD T-18 is easier than most.
Except maybe IHC has the right bolt pattern I believe to bolt up to a Dana 300 & they even used the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l as engine option in the Sprout.
Then again they are rare as hens teeth these days.
 
dang. starting to sound more daunting. lol its ok, i need a good project.

i found a guy with some gear, storksauto. found on ebay motors. he has to offer a "truck style" T-18 with shifter top, adapter, bell housing, "truck style" Dana 20 for $850

link to trans on ebay

he says it will all fit in the cj.
 
There seems to be some confusion with the finer points between the Jeep and Ford T-18 . Jeep used 7 or 8 versions over the years and I believe Ford had more but for the sake of Stoney Bones needs there are two paths generally taken for the swap with one off shoot of the jeep path if you go with Scout boxes.

First off the CJ T-18 came in two versions, the close ratio 4.01 low and the wide ratio 6.32. Jeep started offering the CJ T-18 in 1972 as an option in lieu of the T-15 3 speed. Sometime during the 1976 model year the T18s switched from the close ratio 4.01 to wide ratio 6.32. The exact time of the change seems to be a mystery so buyer beware if looking at a 1976 tranny if you are seeking the 6.32 low. The 1977 through 1979 bell housings all were drilled and taped for both the CJ and Ford T-18 bolt patterns as the T-150 three speed used in those years has the Ford “butterfly” bolt pattern. So, if you find or have a bell housing from those years no adaptors needed to go either CJ of Ford, sort of.

The typical Ford T-18 “stick out” length of the input shaft is 6-1/2” while the CJ version is 7.43”. Above I said no adaptors need well if you go Ford you need to have a special pilot bushing to make up for the shorter shaft and some call that an adaptor but any way you look at it, it cost money. Both Novak & AA have them.

Stoney has a CJ7 so there is a little extra room to go with some of the FSJ version of the T-18 , shaft length vary but on balance the FSJ T-18 will push the Transmission back 5” +/- and probably will necessitate having to modify the floor board hole to accommodate the shifter. I would avoid using a FSJ T-18 unless I had money in the piggy to replace the front shaft to the CJ version.

The CJ T-18 comes with a 1” adaptor at the back of the tranny to accommodate the Dana 20 Transfer Case but this adaptor is in reality part of the CJ T-18 and not something you need to bolt to the back of the case. As we all know the Dana 20 has a “Texas” looking bolt pattern and the Dana 300 is round with the one exception of the 1980 Scout Dana 300 found behind the T-18 and T19 of that year, the Scout version has the “Texas” bolt pattern. In an earlier post it was said that all Scout trannies take the Dana 300 ; not true except for the above and the Dana 300 used behind the auto is not the same bolt pattern as the one used behind the manual Transmission . Prior to 1980 the Dana 20 was the case of choice in the Scout after the Spicer 18 was retired. This Scout version is a fairly rare bird as IH was struck by the auto workers union that year after only a little over 36,000 units had been built. The end result of the strike was that IH never made another passenger vehicle again.

What it all comes down to is that the CJ version needs no adaptors at the back as the adaptor is prt of the case but if using a Ford T-18 to bolt up to the Dana 20 requires a kit that changes out the tail shaft and provides the needed adaptor. Read – More Money. But if you get a Ford T-18 cheap enough the cost of the adaptors may well be less expensive than the cost of the holy grail, the CJ6 .32 T-18 .

Check out these web pages:
http://www.jeeptech.com/convtrans/cjt18/
http://www.jeeptech.com/convtrans/convt18.html
http://www.jeeptech.com/convtrans/fordt18/index.html

If you search around the sites a little you will come up with more information.
 
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Saddle Tramp said:
There seems to be some confusion with the finer points between the Jeep and Ford T-18 . Jeep used 7 or 8 versions over the years and I believe Ford had more but for the sake of Stoney Bones needs there are two paths generally taken for the swap with one off shoot of the jeep path if you go with Scout boxes.

First off the CJ T-18 came in two versions, the close ratio 4.01 low and the wide ratio 6.32. Jeep started offering the CJ T-18 in 1972 as an option in lieu of the T-15 3 speed. Sometime during the 1976 model year the T18s switched from the close ratio 4.01 to wide ratio 6.32. The exact time of the change seems to be a mystery so buyer beware if looking at a 1976 tranny if you are seeking the 6.32 low. The 1977 through 1979 bell housings all were drilled and taped for both the CJ and Ford T-18 bolt patterns as the T-150 three speed used in those years has the Ford “butterfly” bolt pattern. So, if you find or have a bell housing from those years no adaptors needed to go either CJ of Ford, sort of.

The typical Ford T-18 “stick out” length of the input shaft is 6-1/2” while the CJ version is 7.43”. Above I said no adaptors need well if you go Ford you need to have a special pilot bushing to make up for the shorter shaft and some call that an adaptor but any way you look at it, it cost money. Both Novak & AA have them.

Stoney has a CJ7 so there is a little extra room to go with some of the FSJ version of the T-18 , shaft length vary but on balance the FSJ T-18 will push the Transmission back 5” +/- and probably will necessitate having to modify the floor board hole to accommodate the shifter. I would avoid using a FSJ T-18 unless I had money in the piggy to replace the front shaft to the CJ version.

The CJ T-18 comes with a 1” adaptor at the back of the tranny to accommodate the Dana 20 Transfer Case but this adaptor is in reality part of the CJ T-18 and not something you need to bolt to the back of the case. As we all know the Dana 20 has a “Texas” looking bolt pattern and the Dana 300 is round with the one exception of the 1980 Scout Dana 300 found behind the T-18 and T19 of that year, the Scout version has the “Texas” bolt pattern. In an earlier post it was said that all Scout trannies take the Dana 300 ; not true except for the above and the Dana 300 used behind the auto is not the same bolt pattern as the one used behind the manual Transmission . Prior to 1980 the Dana 20 was the case of choice in the Scout after the Spicer 18 was retired. This Scout version is a fairly rare bird as IH was struck by the auto workers union that year after only a little over 36,000 units had been built. The end result of the strike was that IH never made another passenger vehicle again.

What it all comes down to is that the CJ version needs no adaptors at the back as the adaptor is prt of the case but if using a Ford T-18 to bolt up to the Dana 20 requires a kit that changes out the tail shaft and provides the needed adaptor. Read – More Money. But if you get a Ford T-18 cheap enough the cost of the adaptors may well be less expensive than the cost of the holy grail, the CJ6 .32 T-18 .

Check out these web pages:
http://www.jeeptech.com/convtrans/cjt18/
http://www.jeeptech.com/convtrans/convt18.html
http://www.jeeptech.com/convtrans/fordt18/index.html

If you search around the sites a little you will come up with more information.
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damn! thats some info right there. glad i read it. glad you typed it. so now im thinking the guy that is selling the 'truck style' T-18 for $750 is pretending like its worth the same as the original CJ T-18 . am i wrong? or is any old T-18 worth almost a grand? doesnt seem right to me..........someone make this easy and sell me their original CJ T-18 and tcase lol
 
Saddle Tramp said:
There seems to be some confusion with the finer points between the Jeep and Ford T-18 . Jeep used 7 or 8 versions over the years and I believe Ford had more but for the sake of Stoney Bones needs there are two paths generally taken for the swap with one off shoot of the jeep path if you go with Scout boxes.

First off the CJ T-18 came in two versions, the close ratio 4.01 low and the wide ratio 6.32. Jeep started offering the CJ T-18 in 1972 as an option in lieu of the T-15 3 speed. Sometime during the 1976 model year the T18s switched from the close ratio 4.01 to wide ratio 6.32. The exact time of the change seems to be a mystery so buyer beware if looking at a 1976 tranny if you are seeking the 6.32 low. The 1977 through 1979 bell housings all were drilled and taped for both the CJ and Ford T-18 bolt patterns as the T-150 three speed used in those years has the Ford “butterfly” bolt pattern. So, if you find or have a bell housing from those years no adaptors needed to go either CJ of Ford, sort of.

The typical Ford T-18 “stick out” length of the input shaft is 6-1/2” while the CJ version is 7.43”. Above I said no adaptors need well if you go Ford you need to have a special pilot bushing to make up for the shorter shaft and some call that an adaptor but any way you look at it, it cost money. Both Novak & AA have them.

Stoney has a CJ7 so there is a little extra room to go with some of the FSJ version of the T-18 , shaft length vary but on balance the FSJ T-18 will push the Transmission back 5” +/- and probably will necessitate having to modify the floor board hole to accommodate the shifter. I would avoid using a FSJ T-18 unless I had money in the piggy to replace the front shaft to the CJ version.

The CJ T-18 comes with a 1” adaptor at the back of the tranny to accommodate the Dana 20 Transfer Case but this adaptor is in reality part of the CJ T-18 and not something you need to bolt to the back of the case. As we all know the Dana 20 has a “Texas” looking bolt pattern and the Dana 300 is round with the one exception of the 1980 Scout Dana 300 found behind the T-18 and T19 of that year, the Scout version has the “Texas” bolt pattern. In an earlier post it was said that all Scout trannies take the Dana 300 ; not true except for the above and the Dana 300 used behind the auto is not the same bolt pattern as the one used behind the manual Transmission . Prior to 1980 the Dana 20 was the case of choice in the Scout after the Spicer 18 was retired. This Scout version is a fairly rare bird as IH was struck by the auto workers union that year after only a little over 36,000 units had been built. The end result of the strike was that IH never made another passenger vehicle again.

What it all comes down to is that the CJ version needs no adaptors at the back as the adaptor is prt of the case but if using a Ford T-18 to bolt up to the Dana 20 requires a kit that changes out the tail shaft and provides the needed adaptor. Read – More Money. But if you get a Ford T-18 cheap enough the cost of the adaptors may well be less expensive than the cost of the holy grail, the CJ6 .32 T-18 .

Check out these web pages:
http://www.jeeptech.com/convtrans/cjt18/
http://www.jeeptech.com/convtrans/convt18.html
http://www.jeeptech.com/convtrans/fordt18/index.html

If you search around the sites a little you will come up with more information.
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Great info and very well put together!

BTW, I paid onlt $200 for my holy grail original 1979 CJ T-18 from a guy parting a 79 CJ5 . Talk about luck! :D
 
Everyone says that the t18a granny gear is the superior to the T-18 four speed. I'm just curious for those that need four forward speeds and not the really low granny gear does any one have any experience with the close ratio T-18 ? How do you like how it shifts? how do you like it compared to the T-176 or other four speeds?
 
ozelot250 said:
Everyone says that the t18a granny gear is the superior to the T-18 four speed. I'm just curious for those that need four forward speeds and not the really low granny gear does any one have any experience with the close ratio T-18 ? How do you like how it shifts? how do you like it compared to the T-176 or other four speeds?
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I don't have any experience with the close ratio T-18 , but I'm pretty sure you'll find the T-176 has less of a truck feel to it than the T-18 , and to get that, you'll sacrifice a whole lot of strength. I have a wide ratio T-18 and 354 gears with 33" tires. I actually use 1st gear on the street to start out in when on hills. The thing is, without 1st being syncronized, you have to be carefull not to grind the gears when shifting to second. I wish I had 4.11 gears so starting out in second all the time wouldn't require slipping the heck out of the clutch.
 
ozelot250 said:
Everyone says that the t18a granny gear is the superior to the T-18 four speed. I'm just curious for those that need four forward speeds and not the really low granny gear does any one have any experience with the close ratio T-18 ? How do you like how it shifts? how do you like it compared to the T-176 or other four speeds?
Click to expand...
One other thing to keep in mind. Having the granny low is really nice when you're stuck in a slow traffic jam. If you have a heavy clutch pedal like mine, your leg will thank you for it. :D
 
ozelot250 said:
Everyone says that the t18a granny gear is the superior to the T-18 four speed. I'm just curious for those that need four forward speeds and not the really low granny gear does any one have any experience with the close ratio T-18 ? How do you like how it shifts? how do you like it compared to the T-176 or other four speeds?
Click to expand...

The Borg Warner gear T-18 is massively stronger than a Tremec T-176 .
The T-18 has an iron case Vs. aluminum.
The T-18 & T-19 (Syncro 1st gear) were both use in larger commercial trucks.
As mentioned in other post the T-176 shifts more like a car, mainly because it's more of a car type Transmission like a Borg Warner T-10, but with a tower type shift set up.
 
I checked my receipts from last year when I swapped the T-15 for a T-18 in my '81 CJ5 . I got the T-18 with adapter and Dana 20 Transfer Case for $275 on Ebay. It was a Jeep T-18 that came out of a '76 J20 pickup truck. I was able to use the original Bellhousing on the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l with a slight modification for the clutch fork. I had to install a short shaft kit, and a new clutch assembly since the shaft was too long and the input shaft had a different spline count than the original. The short shaft kit and clutch assembly was $398.57 at Parts Mike. They have a website also and Mike has first hand knowledge of how this all goes in and I was able to get great help from him during the install. He also has a website, partsmike.com. The modifications to the drive shafts, front and rear, cost $125 and miscellaneous bolts and welding cost another $100. That was a grand total of $898. The Transmission is bulletproof and the climbing ability is night and day over the old 3 speed. No synchro in first or reverse but since I start in second around town and usually come to a stop before shifting into reverse, that has never been a problem. With a little patience, you will find a great deal out there, especially in these times. If you make the switch, you will never look back or question your decision.

Tommy
 
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