Jeep shakes violently . . .

[Old Dog]

Now front & rear Dana 44 's on the other hand were definitely not a factory option.
I'd be interested to know exactly what vehicle they came out of & how they were modified.

X2.

 

[BajaEdition]

IMHO your a little off base on this one Baja.
They stopped putting AMC 304 V8's in CJ's in 81'
I could easily see someone swapping in a 4.0 to gain more HP & fuel injection.
Also the T-5 , T-4 & T-176 were all factory options in 84' with a AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l 6 cyl.
Now front & rear Dana 44 's on the other hand were definitely not a factory option.
I'd be interested to know exactly what vehicle they came out of & how they were modified.
As far as Death wobble goes I've seen cases where every thing in the truck seems like it's coming apart.

How about some pictures of the tranny mount from different angles.

ok then, I usually use a book for source of engine and tranny options that I could not find yesterday, I used the history of CJ for the options and they did not list theT4/5 as options for 1980, and also
stated a 1980 would have a AMC 304 , hummm somewhere I got crossed up. I have seen quite a few cases of DW that get violent also, but let me ask you do not flags go off all over the place about the conversion when he states shifter does not fit in hole, jeep was great off road, etc. stabilizer is loose.
Anyway Why I ask is that DW is 90 percent caused by bad geometry, and when you have that bump steer is an issue. it also usually has a speed that it occurs at besides when something sets it off, as well as shows up during braking, none of those are complained about here. So I want to check out a few issues first before moving onto the steering.
Stabilizers do not cure DW, just help mask it.
Violent DW can rip out badly fabbed mounts. I want to check this on this jeep first. I have seen a lot of scary stuff under a Jeep in the name of getting stuff to fit, one common thing is a steel plate used to extend or shorten tranny mounts. these things work great for a few trips but then start to flex and rip, also when the Tranny mount does not fir and they do something to get it to, they remove the anti torque rotation mount on the T case and do not replace it, thinking that the tranny mount will keep everything centered, Well that mount is not there to keep things in place, but to keep the T case from rotating in a circle and breaking mounting bolts till they separate. All these flags went up when he stated that the floor had not been modified, it told me the owner did not do the follow up correctly and just cut corners.
Now we can just deal with the DW, but then we would have this Laissez-Faire attitude toward crawling under there for checks once the DW issue is done. So I am concentrating on one issue at a time. Getting the Jeep sound before dealing with the death Wobble is important as we do not want to deal with the DW twice. So, where do we go?
If you are willing to take over, go for it, I will bow out, that way I will not have to deal with caster, camber angles. degree shims, pinion angle, pitman arms. degree of drop on draglink and other common geometry angles over over a online forum that takes way to long and will save me the coin of a few phone calls to answer a few questions that take several post here.
I leave the problem to you.

 

[BajaEdition]

You know, come to think of it, it's not really in the wheel at all. It's in the drive train and body.

hummm

 

[ParsonMac]

Now we can just deal with the DW, but then we would have this Laissez-Faire attitude toward crawling under there for checks once the DW issue is done. So I am concentrating on one issue at a time. Getting the Jeep sound before dealing with the death Wobble is important as we do not want to deal with the DW twice.

Baja, I'm with you, so bowing out isn't necessary. I not only thank you for your help but need it as well.

I am capable of discerning between what I need to do first and work from there, however not to the exclusion of advice from others. No way am I gonna remove a front end before i check a mount. I'm going to begin with the drive line mounts (engine, tranny), loose bolts etc. and then work from there. The stabilizer I'm referring to by the way is the one you mentioned on the Transfer Case and not steering. :ty:

 

[BajaEdition]

sodo we have a solidmounting of the drivetrain now, with no hokey looking plates spliced in between mounts and tranny or any loose bolts? feel no binding of drivrshafts etc?

 

[ParsonMac]

. . . let me ask you do not flags go off all over the place about the conversion when he states shifter does not fit in hole, jeep was great off road, etc. stabilizer is loose. Anyway, why I ask is that DW is 90 percent caused by bad geometry, and when you have that bump steer is an issue. It also usually has a speed that it occurs at besides when something sets it off, as well as shows up during braking, none of those are complained about here.

All correct!

I can go from 0-65 mph with no wobble, shake, shimmy, wander, bump, bang or creak. Bump steer is nonexistent. It's just a certain speed over a certain kind of bump that causes the drive line to oscillate transferring that energy to the body. I know this may be hard to believe, but the steering wheel is perfectly still when all this is happening.

I've visually inspected the mounts - looks to be to spec. I do know the stabilizer on the TC is loose. I'm gonna replace that. I'm also gonna pull the cross member off and replace the mount there. Wife's out of town for a week and I'm trying to manage the schedules of myself and three kids involved in everything from soccer and violin to "dad I need three flashlights from the dollar store for my science experiment - oh, by the way it's due tomorrow." Sheesh!

 

[CJ]

Jeep Death Wabble, Not CJ's but can be a pin to figure out.

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[BajaEdition]

Been there, both sides as kids and dad. LOL
ok here is something to look for, a friend of mine came over to see about changing the clutch, he said he had a lot of drive train shake coming out of first and reverse. Now 2 of his friends said to change the clutch and resurface the fly wheel, but his clutch was less than 4000 miles old.
I climbed under looking for what could be happening found this plate adapted to the tranny mount.

if you look sideways you see it was professionally made from the bends in it

so we jacked up the tranny, dropped the crossmember and found the tranny mount was toast, I do not have a picture of it as I tossed it, but I have a pic of the side of one I carry as a spare, the one side of the rubber where it crosses over the top in a arc was ripped to shreads. look here

so I put my spare at the time onto his tranny measured the plate holes and moved the crossmember back that far. drilled a new hole for the torque mount from the tcase bolted everything together and guess what, no more shaking going on in there.
you see the fulcrum pressure of the extended mount, put there so not to have to move the crossmember during the tranny swap had after numerous years caused problems in the driveline it was designed to prevent.
so let us get anything like this, and correct the shifter clearance issue, then move on with a platform we can trust.

 

[BajaEdition]

now CJ did you notice in the first video the amount of wobble in the steering wheel, that is one sign of DW we are not getting here. Hummm

 

[LongHorn]

I'm still waiting for the tranny mount pictures.

 

[Old Dog]

I'm finding this very interesting. What I would like to know is how fast are you going over the tracks when this happens. And what the crossing is like ie smooth, rough, flat on a hill, you get the idea. :lpopcorn:

 

[BajaEdition]

well guys once we get them, then we will move onto the geometry issues.
Like I have said 90% of the time DW is caused by the front end, but then there are issue he has brought up that are a issue also, such as a unfinished tranny mod. I only want to make sure the drive train is solidly in there before moving on.
I guess I do not want to fix one problem and leave others out there. Watch and say all you want, but if I were going to fix something, I would want to know things were all handled, we have a clearance issue with the shifter and a claim of no steering wheel wobble, lets go by what evidence we are given.
After we find we are solidly mounted and have no clearance issues the ext step is to try to replicate the DW again. Then move onto the front end.
Like I said whenever you guys are ready.
but putting doubt about a guy who is trying to clear some things up about the mods on the jeep, sheesh you guys are a real pair.

 

[Old Dog]

Like I said whenever you guys are ready.
but putting doubt about a guy who is trying to clear some things up about the mods on the jeep, sheesh you guys are a real pair.

what you talken about baja. I'm not trying to take over nor am I doubting your wanting to clear up any mounting problems. I simply asked a question to try to understand what's happening. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

 

[LongHorn]

what you talken about baja. I'm not trying to take over nor am I doubting your wanting to clear up any mounting problems. I simply asked a question to try to understand what's happening. Don't get your panties in a bunch.

X2-On that!

 

[BajaEdition]

Sorry guys, I just have a weight on the mind the last few weeks, I mentioned it elsewhere on the board, and I guess i have been a bit snappy the last few weeks, but then, come Monday that will be all over but the therapy. I also am kind of confused about the no wheel shake issue, I would love to just scream DEATH WOBBLE, But I keep getting this nagging feeling when he mentions items about the mods and how it wheels great.
SO I want to clear those issues up first. Then move on. Like my buddies Jeep, it can be easy to say it is something, but not being where the Jeep is to look at it personally, well you know.
And now back to our usually insanity.
:lpopcorn::lpopcorn::lpopcorn::lpopcorn:

 

[Old Dog]

Baja the reason for my ? was he said it never happens under 20.
So haw fast are we going over the tracks? If they are rough is the jeep getting thrown arough side to side? If on a hill or dip, is the drivetrain being compressed or extended? Ya see where I'm comming from?
I agree with checking all the mounts and how it is mounted.
We should all check for things being loose on a regular basis.

 

[BajaEdition]

Maybe he is a fan of Rat Patrol

Baja the reason for my ? was he said it never happens under 20.
So haw fast are we going over the tracks? If they are rough is the jeep getting thrown arough side to side? If on a hill or dip, is the drivetrain being compressed or extended? Ya see where I'm comming from?
I agree with checking all the mounts and how it is mounted.
We should all check for things being loose on a regular basis.

 

[LongHorn]

Maybe he is a fan of Rat Patrol

Still waiting for the tranny mount pic's.

 

[ParsonMac]

Sorry Longhorn -no pics. Wife took the camera out of town - and by golly I wasn't gonna wait till she returned to put that mount on.

The mount went in and TC stabilzer as well. Nothing modified under there at all. Crossmember bolted to factory etc. It brought up the driveline to a point that the shifter now clears the tub and there is a noticeable improvement in the stability of the driveline. I've yet to experience the oscillation described earlier. Hope this is the cure (fingers crossed).

By the way, those tracks are not bad, like a washboarded road about 10 feet across.

 

[BajaEdition]

Sorry Longhorn -no pics. Wife took the camera out of town - and by golly I wasn't gonna wait till she returned to put that mount on.

The mount went in and TC stabilzer as well. Nothing modified under there at all. Crossmember bolted to factory etc. It brought up the driveline to a point that the shifter now clears the tub and there is a noticeable improvement in the stability of the driveline. I've yet to experience the oscillation described earlier. Hope this is the cure (fingers crossed).

By the way, those tracks are not bad, like a washboarded road about 10 feet across.

I am glad we found that problem and got it corrected
I am not saying it would cure the entire problem, but I bet it helped tremendously and when we go to work with the rest it is not as scary as it was previously. With the driveline properly tied down, and the shifter clearing the tub, we now have a solid base to work with. And possibly handled the entire problem.
I would like to continue looking at the steering as we need to decide if the PO followed through as diligently as we found he did with the cross member.