Jeep t-18 length question.

[IOPort51]

I am sure I will have to do some more investigation on this but I thought I would throw this out and see if anybody has any thoughts.

I have a T-18 Jeep close ratio Transmission . It is currently laying on the floor of my barn waiting for some attention and an install into the CJ.

Here is the question: There is an adapter/spacer between the bell and the Transmission , it would appear that this is to compensate for an input shaft that is 3 or 4 inches longer that it needs to be. When putting a T-18 /Dana 20 into a CJ5 the over all length and length of the drive shaft are of some concern. Has anybody done any work on shortening the input and removing the adapter/spacer??

 

[Incommando]

It sounds like you have a T-18 from a FSJ but IIRC all of those used the 6.32 first gear:

"As a general rule, all FSJ T-18 's featured varying lengths of input shafts - all too long for installation into short wheelbased Jeeps. These were fitted with a variety of factory adapters and deeper bellhousings to accomodate the deeper bulkheads of these larger Jeeps. We get many calls from individuals attempting to adapt these versions into CJ Jeeps - many of them being sold under the unscrupulous pretense that they are inexpensive and direct replacements. Individuals get caught in often fruitless salvage searches for the rarest of the Jeep T-18 input shafts and bearing retainers in an attempt to make the project succeed. As a solution for wide ratio (6.32:1 first gear) Jeep T-18 's, we offer a new input shaft and retainer assembly, kit #T-18 -ISK. There is currently no solution for the narrow ratio (4.02:1) Jeep T-18 's."

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t18_t19.htm

The easiest solution I found for using a FSJ wide-ratio T18a in a CJ7 was to extend the wheel base about a foot so that the rear driveshaft was long enough. On a stock CJ5 this may be a real challenge. The easiest solution is usually a Ford or an actual CJ T-18 .

 

[IOPort51]

My bad, I should have mentioned that the Transmission was from a 76 CJ5 .

It will fit with a drive shaft that is about 18" long. I would just like to have the extra 3 or 4 inches.

It is beginning to look like the most cost effective way to end up where I want to go is to find a ford wide ratio and adapt a Dana 300 to it.

I would think I could find a machine shop that could grind the input a bit shorter and re spline for the clutch if it needed it with out too much problem.

this is pretty much just a thinking out loud kind of thread for the moment.

 

[coldair]

Do you have any pictures of it? I installed a T-18 in my 74 CJ5 so I might be able to help

 

[mylittlecj5]

IO, this is the T-18 out of my old '78 CJ5 . It is going in my CJ5 if I ever get to work on it again...
As you can see there is no adapter, and the input shaft is the short version. I thought this was the wide ratio, but after researching it, I am thinking it is the close ratio version .




Anyways, it is a T-18B as you can see.


I also think you have a FSJ unit, just from your description of the adapter. From what I have seen, the only adapter on a true CJ T-18 is the one at the Transfer Case .
EDIT: Another pic stole off Pirate that shows the T-18 to Dan 20 adapter pretty good..

 

[mylittlecj5]

Pulled this off pirate, maybe it will help clear up the confusion?


and another for even more comparison...


and not a very good one that shows the adapter for a FSJ installed on the long input shaft...

 

[Incommando]

If you look closely in this photo you can see the spacer between the tranny & bell housing that identifies mine as a FSJ unit as opposed to the CJ unit a pictured above:

 

[IOPort51]

Well, I am glad I went and looked at the pictures I took when I bought it.

Last week I was looking at a T-18 on e-bay that swore it was out of a CJ and it had the block that commando has so maybe he was streching the truth a bit?

but if you look at mine it is different from either one of these.




It was bolted to a , to the best of my knowledge, AMC 304 .

Mine does not bolt directly to the bell??

this just keeps getting better and better.

the casting number is 13 01 065 906.

 

[IOPort51]

the casting # would indicate that it came from a 79 CJ.

 

[hagar]

258s used the adapter between Transmission and bell.
FSJ used the adapter between the Transmission and bell on V8s.
the bellhousings would be the same regardless of engine between 74-79.
any metal tags attached to the top cover bolts ?

 

[Tommy]

Not sure if it's the same thing but I recently put a T-18 out of a J20 pickup into my '81 CJ5 . It had a long spacer like you mentioned that I had to remove as well as put a short input shaft into the tranny. The reason for the extra length was because it was behind a V8 which is a shorter block than the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l staight six. I still had to shorten the rear drive shaft and get a longer front one but it wasn't enough to cause any problems. Hope this helps.

Tommy

 

[IOPort51]

i don't guess they put 4.2s in J-20s, did they?

Not sure if it's the same thing but I recently put a T-18 out of a J20 pickup into my '81 CJ5 . It had a long spacer like you mentioned that I had to remove as well as put a short input shaft into the tranny. The reason for the extra length was because it was behind a V8 which is a shorter block than the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l staight six. I still had to shorten the rear drive shaft and get a longer front one but it wasn't enough to cause any problems. Hope this helps.

Tommy

 

[IOPort51]

I am going to say "no tags" but its been a while since I looked at it.

258s used the adapter between Transmission and bell.
FSJ used the adapter between the Transmission and bell on V8s.
the bellhousings would be the same regardless of engine between 74-79.
any metal tags attached to the top cover bolts ?

 

[Incommando]

The picture answered the question. The close-ratio T-18 used a short plate adapter like you have & did indeed come in a CJ but only from '72 to '75. That is a CJ T-18 but was not original to that '79. '79 did have a T-18 available but only the wide-ratio and it did not use an adapter plate. The T-18 has always been a very popular swap to replace the 3-spd. The seller probably had no idea it was not original.

As that tranny originally came in a CJ5 you should not have an issue putting it in one.

The Borg-Warner T18 & T19 Transmissions - Novak Conversions
"Generally, most CJ T-18 's from 1972 to 1975 had the close-ratio, fitted with a front adapter plate in cast iron to the AMC bellhousing. These transmissions had the narrow ratio gearing (4.02:1 first gear). These 1972-1975 Jeep CJ T-18 's adapt to GM Engines with our #1415 kit.
1976 was a crossover year for the Jeep CJ T-18 , featuring either the 4.02 or 6:32 first gear and no front adapter as previously. Both these and all CJ T-18 's through 1979 had the shortest of the Jeep input shafts, measuring 7.43" of stickout.
All Jeep CJ's from 1977 to 1979 had wide-ratio T-18 with the 6.32:1 first gear. No front adapter plate is present on these models. 1976-1979 T-18 transmissions can be adapted to GM V6 or V8 by use of a T-18 adapter kit that we manufacture, kit #1879. Jeep CJ T-18 's from 1976-1978 may be cast with #13-01-097-907.
The 1979 Jeep CJ T-18 is similar to the 1976-1978 versions, except that it features a wider front bearing and a different top cover with aluminum shift forks and a different shift pattern with reverse gear being over to the right and down. These T-18 's may have a casting number of #13-01-065-906"

 

[Incommando]

i don't guess they put 4.2s in J-20s, did they?

They did through at least '79 but they were generally in fleet service trucks. As far as I can tell the adapter plate was a year issue and not an engine issue anyway.

 

[tarry99]

I am sure I will have to do some more investigation on this but I thought I would throw this out and see if anybody has any thoughts.

I have a T-18 Jeep close ratio Transmission . It is currently laying on the floor of my barn waiting for some attention and an install into the CJ.

Here is the question: There is an adapter/spacer between the bell and the Transmission , it would appear that this is to compensate for an input shaft that is 3 or 4 inches longer that it needs to be. When putting a T-18 /Dana 20 into a CJ5 the over all length and length of the drive shaft are of some concern. Has anybody done any work on shortening the input and removing the adapter/spacer??

IO,

The Borg Warner T-18 built for Jeep versions as you have might be tough to shorten up simply because parts are hardly available anymore and the configurations for the shorter input shafts if you could find one sometimes requires an internal main shaft change also. I noticed you mentioned close-ratio, and not the wide ratio 6:32 low gear?
The Ford version T-18 case #1301-065-907 is 11.87" long and will bolt direct to a standard depth bell housing with a 6.5" stick out input shaft........there is a standard 1" aluminum adapter to the Dana 20 so overall length is 12.87" Ford used I believe 1-1/8"x10 spline input shaft while Jeep was using an 1-1/4" x10 spline
The Ford BW Transmission version is much easier to work with for length and parts are everywhere as the Ford version is used across the country in oil field pumps and well drilling equipment.
I do a lot of rebuild work on the Fords in fact I was rebuilding one today.
If you have some questions on the internals ask away.

 

[Saddle Tramp]

The reason for the adaptor plate in front of the FSJ T18s was so that the shifter wouldn’t hit the dash. The stock bell housing from your 1977 CJ will accept either a Jeep CJ T-18 or the Ford “butterfly” T-18 . The stick out on the CJ T-18 is 7.43” while the Ford is 6.5” so if using the stock Jeep bell housing a special pilot bushing needs to be used to make up for the shorter shaft. Novak and AA both carry them as well as any other rebuild parts you might need. http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/t18_t19.htm


Here are some links to help you out with the swap:

http://www.jeeptech.com/convtrans/cjt18/

http://www.jeeptech.com/convtrans/ford/fordt18id.html

 

[johnbilt]

Hi - I think I have a short CJ input shaft for a narrow ratio 4:1 T-18 . I will take a look in my parts boxes. Are you interested in the input shaft, and countershaft? I also have the gearset. I swapped in a wide ratio 6.32 set with a ford input into mine.
John

 

[IOPort51]

OK John, let me get this straight. You were able to keep the Jeep case and output shaft and replace the close ratio gearset and short input from a ford wide ratio T-18 ??

I find that interesting, I find that very interesting.

Please tell us more.:drool:

Hi - I think I have a short CJ input shaft for a narrow ratio 4:1 T-18 . I will take a look in my parts boxes. Are you interested in the input shaft, and countershaft? I also have the gearset. I swapped in a wide ratio 6.32 set with a ford input into mine.
John

 

[johnbilt]

Hi IO,

The input shaft and low ratio countershaft assembly out of a donor T-18 can be swapped into the T-18 to make a low ratio or 6.32 1st gear Transmission . The ford input shaft is shorter with a different diameter spline and nose diameter. You can get a different pilot bushing for the crank to allow the ford input shaft to work.

I think the difficulty you are having is that you are trying to replace the input shaft on a Jeep specific T-18 with the 4:1 ratio. The Ford input shaft only works with the low ratio countershaft. The input gear must mesh with the drive gear on the countershaft.

You can probably find a ford T-18 in a Transmission boneyard to get the parts. If you want to keep the original Jeep input and the 4:1 ratio, I have a set of these parts leftover. The 6.32:1 ratio is the way to go if you can get the parts.

There are several sites on the web about this T-18 work. You may want to contact PartsMike.com for info and some parts. He is a good resource. Also Novak conversions has a good website for info and parts.

Good Luck- John in Alaska