Moser 1 piece axle problems

[Lumpy Grits]

I would pull the diff cover and see. You could have a carrier bearing die'n--
I still feel it's the axle housing's bearing area. Would like to see a picture of your axle showing the bearing placement and assembly sequence.
That amount of play is unsafe to drive--
LG

 

[tarry99]

LG, I just used the process of elimination.
Axle housing within tolerance.............REALLY?
Bearing and race checked out.

Still have the original noise and 3/16" of movement with the tire/wheel.



So, my conclusion is that the bearing/race is a fulcrum and the wheel/tire is the leverage on the shaft. The play is the apparent wear in the differential. NOT........Which is the only thing that hasn't been replaced.

I really think your getting confused..............Everything I just read and seen (look at drawing B ) on the Moser web site about these installs in the Model 20 says the "Axle Bearing" is a "Press Fit".........yours are loose in the housing!.........This has nothing to do with the differential......... either replace the housing ends where the axle bearings reside or the complete housing with an acceptable replacement.......Done!

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Terry-The 'press-fit' is the bearing & collar onto the axle shaft. I install'em with a piece of pipe .
The bearing OD to axle housing ID is a snug hand fit.

LG

 

[tarry99]

Terry-The 'press-fit' is the bearing & collar onto the axle shaft. I install'em with a piece of pipe .
The bearing OD to axle housing ID is a snug hand fit.

LG

LG, 10-4 ..........on the press fit.........but look at Figure C what is the reference there?

I still say it's the housing end's that are either out of round or just flat too loose and worn out that is causing all of that wobble out at the wheel. I think that needs to be fixed first and then getting the end play in order.

I'll stick with my 9" stuff.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

X2 on 9". Have had mine for 24+ years.
Fig "C" is a mod for the old style ball bearing type axles. Is that what you have??
The picture you post'd show'n the bearing sit'n in the axle housing. How loose was the fit?
Really-remove the diff cover and ck the carrier!
LG

 

[ColeTrickle]

LG, 10-4 ..........on the press fit.........but look at Figure C what is the reference there?

I believe the point of the reference is this: have the .02-.08". Which I have.

"I still say it's the housing end's that are either out of round."

I mic'd it, 2.54" all the way around where the bearing resides. 2.5" is the distance where the spacer ring resides. Also all the way around.

Race does slip in and out of the housing. Doesn't fall out. You can pull it out with your hand. Doesnt fall out.
I will not be replacing the housing ends.
And, yes I too would like a 9"

The figure "c" that I see is referring to the "housing end expanded view". Doesn't say anything about the old or new style types of bearings.
LG, like I mentioned it can be pulled out by hand. Doesnt fall out but doesn't have to be yank out with a puller either.

I may pull the cover to see if I can see movement in the carrier. I however won't be able to see the axle shaft splines being moved back in forth in the carrier. That's kinda why I didn't remove it.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Cole-If it is at all possible at some time.
Would really like to see a picture of the axle assemble showing the outer axle seal in where the brakes are, the backing plate and where your bearings sit.
This is a real head scratcher for me. As I have never had any issue with the installs I have done.
It's almost like the bearing is 'walking' on the shaft just a bit. BUT-I know this is NOT the case.
Moser may well have the correct ans with the sleeve deal in using the exhaust pipe idea. Easy enough to do--
Good luck,
LG

 

[ColeTrickle]

LG, your right. A head scratcher.
I've replaced one other pair of one piece axles in a NT 1980 CJ7 . No problems and it had a 1969 Camaro 350 in it.

Everything leads to the Limited slip, 158k mile, Texas ranch, rode hard differential <with my worst Texas slang>.

I'll do more investigating. Will post back.

 

[tarry99]

I believe the point of the reference is this: have the .02-.08". Which I have.

"I still say it's the housing end's that are either out of round."

I mic'd it, 2.54" all the way around where the bearing resides. 2.5" is the distance where the spacer ring resides. Also all the way around.

Race does slip in and out of the housing. Doesn't fall out. You can pull it out with your hand. Doesnt fall out.
I will not be replacing the housing ends.
And, yes I too would like a 9"

The figure "c" that I see is referring to the "housing end expanded view". Doesn't say anything about the old or new style types of bearings.
LG, like I mentioned it can be pulled out by hand. Doesnt fall out but doesn't have to be yank out with a puller either.

I may pull the cover to see if I can see movement in the carrier. I however won't be able to see the axle shaft splines being moved back in forth in the carrier. That's kinda why I didn't remove it.

Sorry guys but as I continue to read this I still come away with the same conclusion.........there is no way an axle bearing can do it's job in the axle housing bore by being a hand fit........or as you say:....."Race does slip in and out of the housing. Doesn't fall out........this will not work " No way" .....to much force on the bearing being created by the wheels and tires and there offset cantilever effect on that bearing.....If you can pull that bearing in or out by hand it is too loose. Hand fit will never allow the bearing to locate itself in the bore or housing ends and do it's job. That bearing should be snug in the bore to the point that when you install it with the axle a slight tap with a rubber mallet should be needed during the install........the interference fit between the ID of the bore and the OD of the bearing I would bet is less than .010 thousands. You first need to get the bearing square in the bore and then a slight tap to move it in.

Your measurements with a caliper due to its square jaw design will not tell you correctly if the bore is tapered or out of round.........the only correct way is with a set of snap gauges as shown in the picture I supplied earlier and a micrometer. With those gauges you can measure the bore in several locations starting from the outside to the inside.

And I'm still not sure what is your reference to the carrier being part of the problem of wheel movement?out at the axle ends? That Carrier is say 30" away and will have no ability to help the axle bearing locate itself in the bore at that distance. The axle shafts do not remain rigid , they do flex some and move , they are designed that way........and hence would have no effect in helping add any rigidity to the housing bore and axle bearings.

The only logical conclusion to your problem is the interference fit between the housing end ID versus the Bearing OD is "Greater" than it should be............

I would call Moser or Currie and ask them for the dimension of that Housing Bore ID on there replacement housing ends and then measure a new bearing OD......I'll bet again it's not much more than .005-.010 thousands between the two and yours if measured correctly would exceed that.

If you want to fix it replace the housing or housing ends.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

What does Currie have to do with it?
All the Moser sets I have installed, were a snug slip fit in the axle bearing to the housing.
Just wish Cole Trickle was closer so I could put an eye-ball on his set up, is all.
I do now feel, that the issue is within the axle housing. That's why I think the idea about using the exhaust pipe as a internal sleeve/bearing stop is a good idea.
LG

 

[ColeTrickle]

First and foremost, I appreciate yalls time and knowledge replying to this thread. I am very grateful.

I measured the bearing race and came up with 2.56"od vs the axle tubes 2.54" id. I'll add WITH a caliper so maybe not precise.

I'm not that comfortable assuming that because the race can be pulled in and out by hand that this is causing the movement I'm experiencing. I could be wrong though.
I did update that I couldn't move or pull the axle shaft in or out of the housing. So I just want to make that clear also.

Here in a minute I'm gonna stick my ear to the axle and try to find where I'm hearing the noise from. Hopefully I'll be able to pin point outer axle housing or diff area.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Cole-If the bear'n race is .020 larger(2.560)than the axle house'n(2.540).
It would not fit------
You sure you didn't switch the measurements around?
LG

 

[ColeTrickle]

You sure you didn't switch the measurements around?
LG

Good catch!

Here's my latest video. Thanks for watching!
https://youtu.be/dRJc5WroUY0


So...would any of yall trust these gears on a 2000 mile round trip, with some trail riding in between? Yeah I'm that serious and crazy!

 

[Lumpy Grits]

NO- I would not be driving that jeep anydangplace, till the axle slop is corrected!!
Heck of allot of slop in those spider gears!

LG

 

[tarry99]

What does Currie have to do with it?
All the Moser sets I have installed, were a snug slip fit in the axle bearing to the housing.
Just wish Cole Trickle was closer so I could put an eye-ball on his set up, is all.
I do now feel, that the issue is within the axle housing. That's why I think the idea about using the exhaust pipe as a internal sleeve/bearing stop is a good idea.
LG

Good catch!

Here's my latest video. Thanks for watching!
https://youtu.be/dRJc5WroUY0


So...would any of yall trust these gears on a 2000 mile round trip, with some trail riding in between? Yeah I'm that serious and crazy!

LG / What does Currie have to do with it? Supplying needed information as to what the ID of that housing Bore dimension should be......without that to compare with were all wasting our time.

Cole/ It seems the piece of exhaust tubing / Spacer that Moser referred to is absent in your set up is that correct?
That bearing set has to be proud of the axle housing by .020-.080 thousands. The tubing spacer is required behind the bearing between it and the bearing spacer ring to force the bearing out to be proud of the housing......once the backing plate is installed it then forces the bearing to be locked in place against the rear of that bore up against the bearing spacer ring which should already be installed as part of the kit. By doing so that will not allow the axle to wobble or the bearing to turn inside the bore...........If that bearing has been turning inside the bore or the axle has been run the way you show in your video then you can almost bet the housing ends are over sized..........If you do not have that rear tubing spacer you need to at least try installing one on each side...........this will be a trial & error measurement which means that it may have to be cut more than once........if you had access to some round gauges ( like shown) then by inserting a different size in the carrier until you get the desired end play, then you could cut a new spacer.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

"LG / What does Currie have to do with it? Supplying needed information as to what the ID of that housing Bore dimension should be......without that to compare with were all wasting our time."


Currie doesn't have one dang thing to do with this 32+ year old AMC, Dana/Spicer made Model 20 rear axle.

LG

 

[tarry99]

"LG / What does Currie have to do with it? Supplying needed information as to what the ID of that housing Bore dimension should be......without that to compare with were all wasting our time."


Currie doesn't have one dang thing to do with this 32+ year old AMC, Dana/Spicer made Model 20 rear axle.

LG

LG
Your missing the point here .........Who stated that Currie had anything to do with a Dana 20 axle short of perhaps selling some parts? It's all about information and understanding dimensions .........has no bearing on where you get that info as long as you get it to compare ID's with OD's.
Get off the Currie Issue......it's just a source of information that could help.....nothing more!

 

[hagar]

So he's missing the spacer block on the spider gear cross shaft that the factory tapered axles would but up against in order to set axle endplay.
Is that what I'm seeing in his video? The spacer is gone?
Would Moser have you remove that when installing one piece axles?
Even thought the unit type axle bearing will still separate once driven upon, do you still need the spacer for endplay adjustment?
Did he or PO remove that at some point?

 

[Lumpy Grits]

LG
Your missing the point here .........Who stated that Currie had anything to do with a Dana 20 axle short of perhaps selling some parts? It's all about information and understanding dimensions .........has no bearing on where you get that info as long as you get it to compare ID's with OD's.
Get off the Currie Issue......it's just a source of information that could help.....nothing more!

Nice 'dance'
You were the one say'n Currie could supply needed information about the ID of the bearing housing. .
Hagar, after looking at my FSM. I do believe you are correct about the spacer block.
BUT-The play in the cross-shaft and spider gears is excessive. Did you see the wobble they had?
YES on the spacer as per my notes.
LG

 

[tarry99]

Yep, as far as I know. I have approximately .004-.006" .

I've been thinking long and hard on this.
I think my next course of action is to do as the Moser tech rep suggested.
Get a piece of 2.5" exhaust pipe and cut it the width of a cut off blade. I'll see if this keeps the race from being driven further into the housing. That's the last thing I can fathom as to why I keep having this issue.

Thanks to all of you guys for sticking with me through this ordeal.

Cole/ It seems the piece of exhaust tubing / Spacer that Moser referred to is absent in your set up is that correct?
That bearing set has to be proud of the axle housing by .020-.080 thousands. The tubing spacer is required behind the bearing between it and the bearing spacer ring to force the bearing out to be proud of the housing......once the backing plate is installed it then forces the bearing to be locked in place against the rear of that bore up against the bearing spacer ring which should already be installed as part of the kit. By doing so that will not allow the axle to wobble or the bearing to turn inside the bore...........If that bearing has been turning inside the bore or the axle has been run the way you show in your video then you can almost bet the housing ends are over sized..........If you do not have that rear tubing spacer you need to at least try installing one on each side...........this will be a trial & error measurement which means that it may have to be cut more than once........if you had access to some round gauges ( like shown) then by inserting a different size in the carrier until you get the desired end play, then you could cut a new spacer.

Cole, do yourself a favor and go on the AMC Forums sites.......they use the same axle you have .....Google up: "Bearing fitting with Moser axles" there problems are much the same as yours and after reading through several of them it still seems the problem is spacing inside the axle cavity on the axle bearing end. Read above what you stated that the tech from Moser told you about using a piece of exhaust tubing......not my first choice for a spacer , but I guess it will get the job done.

These guys over at the AMC forums also talk about how much those bore depths can vary between sides and other axles of the same model & type and if they do vary then additional spacing may be needed.

Basically what the Moser tech was trying to tell you is the bore cavity out at the housing ends where the axle bearing resides may be "To Deep" and needs another spacer to take up that extra room......that piece of tubing he referred to would go in loosely around the axle shaft between either the bearing race or press ring and the "bearing spacer ring" that should have already been installed in the housing end up against the inner seal" Look at Figure #C .

That additional spacer ring has to be sized so that you can still get your .020-.080 thousands of bearing sticking out at the housing end so that your backing plate when installed can force and lock the axle and bearing in place into the cavity.

Once that is accomplished the movement inside the carrier your seeing by the axles moving in and out will go away! Try it on one side.........

Hope this helps.