Moser 1 piece axle problems

[Hedgehog]

I talked to Rob at Willys Works about your problem. He has seen this before. Is a slight variation in bearing race OD. But the most valuable thing he said was, "While a Dana 44 race is relatively loose in the bore, the AMC20 is supposed to be slightly tight requiring a tool to remove the race. If you can install, remove or turn the race in the hole the bearing is too loose." He said that Moser used to make their own bearings, but now use Timken bearings. He also noted that the Moser bearings were slightly SMALLER that the Timken version. I'm not so sure about that, Lumpy says that they still make their own bearings, I don't know.

 

[Fastatv]

I jacked mine up, both sides, couldn't get any movement so I'm guessing mine is a brake issue. I'm still going to follow along here in hopes of learning more about possible causes of these noises from the rear axle. Rick

 

[tarry99]

I talked to Rob at Willys Works about your problem. He has seen this before. Is a slight variation in bearing race OD. But the most valuable thing he said was, "While a Dana 44 race is relatively loose in the bore, the AMC20 is supposed to be slightly tight requiring a tool to remove the race. If you can install, remove or turn the race in the hole the bearing is too loose." He said that Moser used to make their own bearings, but now use Timken bearings. He also noted that the Moser bearings were slightly SMALLER that the Timken version. I'm not so sure about that, Lumpy says that they still make their own bearings, I don't know.

This is exactly why I stressed the importance of measuring things correctly!

Once you have those dimensions in hand..........the GO/NO-GO dimensions ........you can now isolate where the problem is and then find out from Moser what is the tolerance range.........then it is either correct it or live with it.

Also if this was a common problem , which I have no Idea , I surely would have thought when you talked with Moser they would have made that known!

Measure it and be done with it!

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Get the SET9 bearing from Moser, and be done with it.
Moser Engineering - Part # 9CJTB - BOP & Jeep Tapered Bearing (Timken Set 9) - Bearings - Assorted Parts
Notice the bearing size specs are listed along with install directions
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

This might sound like a smart assed answer, but believe me it's not. If your axle housing turn out to be the problem, rather than spend a bunch of money on your AMC20 spend ~$300 on a Dana 44 . There are so many reasons why the Dana 44 is a better axle there is no real use in listing them here.

I suppose the word common might be a little over the top, but that is the word Rob used. After describing the problem to him the said, "I don't know why Moser hasn't figured out a solution to that problem long ago." Then he pulled out a bunch of bearings and explained the problem, but it all boiled down to, if you can turn, remove or install an AMC20 bearing race with your fingers it's to lose and you have a problem. Some folks have cut the tube ends off and replaced them with something better, others have taken race savers sized to the race seat and had the race turned to accept the saver (poor explanation, but close). He talked about several other attempts to save an AMC20 , but concluded with, "Just buy a Dana 44 , it's less expensive, stronger and all around a better choice for a Jeep."

 

[ColeTrickle]

HH, thank you for mentioning my issue with your friend. He sounds like a valuable asset. Also tell him thank you!
Yes, I can remove the race with my fingers and spin the race within the tube!

LG, the part you listed is the same part I have in my hand. For reasons unknown to me at this time, I have a 2 piece bearing race set installed. The one as you pictured is the 1 piece combination set, like I also have. Also the set 9. Not yet installed.

I'm guessing maybe they gave me old stock?

Either way it looks like I'll be cutting off this bearing and installing the 1 piece after I also talk with Timken. Hopefully, I'll speak with someone that will shed some light.
Especially why they began to integrate the 2 parts into 1 and why.

 

[hagar]

Most I piece axle bearings are installed as a 1 piece bearing.
They are designed and will soon separate into 2 pieces after installation and run time. That separation groove can normally be seen where separation will occur.
Those may be designed the same way.
Don't get you hopes up too high on a 1 piece bearing and race.

I'll ask again: did you have this or similar problem with the factory axles prior to installation of the 1 piece axles?
I never saw you answer this question.

 

[Hedgehog]

I just remembered something else Rob said. The older Moser bearings were not tapered bearings, they were roller bearings. He hated them, they didn't last very long.

Hagar got to it before I did, the bearing will come as one piece, but will separate shortly after installation. They are made to do this, seems odd to me, evidently it works though.

 

[ColeTrickle]

No, there were no known problem before. I only drove it around the block. It was sitting on mismatched tires and stock suspension.

I knew what my mods were and started tackling them one at a time.

The first mod being replace the 2 piece axles. The last thing was buy new tires and get it inspected. It had been a ranch jeep and was last inpected in 1999.

I've slept a bit since I did the axle mod so I'm guessing they did come as a 1 piece bearing unit just that they've separated in the few hundred miles I've driven it.

 

[ColeTrickle]

Here are 2 videos showing the endplay that I'm getting.
My apologies for my expertise using this tool. It's my first time. I did it several times to get an average. Looks to be around .04"
The second video is just rearranging it to get another average.

https://youtu.be/i2fgAYO0dBM

https://youtu.be/GWIWQ2KiTC8

 

[Lumpy Grits]

You have more play than what the indicator is show'n at .040" or so. Look how much the flange is moving
Put the indicator's tip on the machined flange and PULL/PUSH hard.
Then put the tip under the edge and lift up and down.
You are going to have to shim that play out.
LG

 

[Lumpy Grits]

http://www.moserengineering.com/aitdownloadablefiles/download/aitfile/aitfile_id/90/

Look hard at fig "B" and "C"-Are your SURE these parts were installed correctly??
I have never had the issue you are now having.
LG

 

[ColeTrickle]

Yep, as far as I know. I have approximately .004-.006" .

I've been thinking long and hard on this.
I think my next course of action is to do as the Moser tech rep suggested.
Get a piece of 2.5" exhaust pipe and cut it the width of a cut off blade. I'll see if this keeps the race from being driven further into the housing. That's the last thing I can fathom as to why I keep having this issue.

Thanks to all of you guys for sticking with me through this ordeal.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Pull the axle-Compare it to the assembly instructions to CONFIRM correct assembly-
LG

 

[ColeTrickle]

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Confirm the spacer ring is in place as per the instructions in your pictures, along with the inner axle seal.
When you install the bearing. Do you seat it against the shoulder on the axle. Then install the locking collar-Correct.
Very good pictures BTW
Gary

 

[ColeTrickle]

Well here's an update and conclusion to this thread.

I believe the play from my shafts are from the differential that has been worn out.

I took my shaft to see if the bearing and lock collar could be pressed any further onto the shaft. It was agreed upon that the bearing appeared to be good. Although to my previous mention of it maybe being defected.

Thanks to all you fellow Jeepers for helping me out and sticking with this thread.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Have you removed the diff. cover and inspected the carrier?
The axle is splined to slide into the carrier. The bearings capture and hold the axle in place.
How did you come to your conclusion?
LG

 

[tarry99]

Well here's an update and conclusion to this thread.

I believe the play from my shafts are from the differential that has been worn out.

I took my shaft to see if the bearing and lock collar could be pressed any further onto the shaft. It was agreed upon that the bearing appeared to be good. Although to my previous mention of it maybe being defected.

Thanks to all you fellow Jeepers for helping me out and sticking with this thread.

I assume your reference is to the housing ends , where the axle bearings reside?
If so , That is what I thought all along.........You can either cut them housing ends off and replace them or just grab another used housing , but first checking those housing ends also on the replacement. I'm sure you would love to throw it away and start over but at this point you are invested in that type of housing. There not really that bad once you have the 1 piece axles and weld up the axles tubes....not my first choice , but it is what ya have.

 

[ColeTrickle]

LG, I just used the process of elimination.
Axle housing within tolerance.
Bearing and race checked out.
Grease marks check good in the race after installation.

And now for whatever reason I cannot get any endplay from the shaft...go figure.

Still have the original noise and 3/16" of movement with the tire/wheel.

I was about to pull the diff and drain but said forget it. What's it gonna tell me besides I need to spend more money and show me something that I already know.

So, my conclusion is that the bearing/race is a fulcrum and the wheel/tire is the leverage on the shaft. The play is the apparent wear in the differential. Which is the only thing that hasn't been replaced.