The Water Pump Saga

[quinletc]

I'll try to keep this to the point, but what should be a fairly simple job has me beating my head against the wall.

AMC 232 i6 L6 with power-nothing. Fan pulley, crank pulley, and alternator are the only things on the front of the engine.

Per my post a couple of weeks ago, I had some squealing under the hood and thought it might be the belt. Tried replacing the belt, but that wasn't it. Never have been able to get the exact belt that was on there. And that's been a hassle.

Fan was a bit wobbly. Then coolant started leaking from the bearing on the front of the water pump. OK, so I need a new pump.

Turns out AZ sold me the wrong water pump - bought it before I had taken the old one off. Go back, they don't have it and can't get it. Go to O'Reilly, they can order it. Fair enough.

Get the new pump. Decide that if I am going to replace the water pump, I should also replace the hoses and the thermostat (all of unknown age, but definitely not new). Take everything off, no sweat.

Go to get a thermostat. On the third try, AZ sells me the right one. Check that box.

AZ does has an upper radiator hose, but not a lower, and no heater hoses. O'Reilly has all that (though in two different stores).

Install pump and thermostat. Connect radiator hoses. Connect heater hoses to the heater core. Try to connect heater hoses to thermostat housing and water pump - hoses fit the core perfectly, but appear to be too small for the thermostat housing and water pump. Use grease and jam the hoses on.

Put fan pulley and fan back on. Fan pulley is scraping against the upper alternator support arm. WTH?! Turns out the shaft of the new water pump is almost a half inch shorter than the old one. The fan pulley is not in-line with the alternator and crank pulleys.

QUESTIONS:

1. Are the jammed-on 5/8" heater lines likely to cause a problem?

2. Would I be better off with 3/4" lines that have to be clamped on tight at the core end of the hose?

3. Assuming I can ever find a belt of the correct length and width, is the offset among the pulleys likely to cause a problem? (I assume so, but would be happy to be wrong.)

4. Would a properly sized fender washer on the hub of the water pump shaft make a proper spacer to get the fan pulley more in-line with the other pulleys?

5. Why is it so hard to find correct parts? (Semi-rhetorical question.)

 

[mstar]

Let me try to answer a couple questions. Parts availability on a 40 + year old vehicle can sometimes be difficult. If I can find the correct part online I make a copy and take it to the local parts store with me. This usually helps the counter person to find what you need.
What I have done with mismatched heater hose nipples is make a adaptor nipple out of aluminum stock with 5/8" on one side and 3/4" on other and put inline in a convenient spot. You may be able to buy one like that.
A fender washer would not be suitable as a spacer for pulley. You will need a fan spacer the correct thickness to get your pulleys aligned . Not sure of availability on these. You may have to go to a auto savage yard if parts store doesn't have them. mike

 

[hole]

Do you have a Napa nearby? Where I live, I have nothing but problems with AZ, and Oreileys is 50/50. Very few issues with Napa over the years.

 

[quinletc]

Do you have a Napa nearby? Where I live, I have nothing but problems with AZ, and Oreileys is 50/50. Very few issues with Napa over the years.

Yeah, there are several Napa stores around. Worth a shot for sure. O'Reilly has actually been pretty reliable. And in this case, I think they gave me the correct pump, just the manufacturer didn't keep things the same.

 

[quinletc]

Let me try to answer a couple questions. Parts availability on a 40 + year old vehicle can sometimes be difficult.

Yeah, that's what I meant when I said it was semi-rhetorical. The part I don't get is, if they have a "matching" part, it should actually MATCH. I realize I am preaching to the choir here.

What I have done with mismatched heater hose nipples is make a adaptor nipple out of aluminum stock with 5/8" on one side and 3/4" on other and put inline in a convenient spot. You may be able to buy one like that.

Thanks!

A fender washer would not be suitable as a spacer for pulley. You will need a fan spacer the correct thickness to get your pulleys aligned . Not sure of availability on these. You may have to go to a auto savage yard if parts store doesn't have them.

That's what I figured. I only need about 3/8" - maybe I can find one out there, somewhere.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Go to a NAPA. If you have a NAPA warehouse near you, even better.
Take the parts in with you for side-by-side match up.

LG

 

[mstar]

That's what I figured. I only need about 3/8" - maybe I can find one out there, somewhere.[/QUOTE]

You may have to get a 1/2" or 3/4" and chuck it in a lathe and turn it down to the dimension you need. Maybe you'll get lucky and find what you need.
The main thing is the pilot hole to keep everything aligned and the 4 bolts to keep it square.good luck,sounds like you have a good handle on it. mike

 

[Hedgehog]

Also, make sure the pump turns in the right direction. Folks here have had trouble because some engines have serpentine belts which run the pump in the opposite direction. If you done look at the impeller you never know the difference until the pump doesn't work.

 

[quinletc]

Also, make sure the pump turns in the right direction. Folks here have had trouble because some engines have serpentine belts which run the pump in the opposite direction. If you done look at the impeller you never know the difference until the pump doesn't work.

Yep, have checked the impellers are the same. Will visually confirm flow in the radiator once it's all hooked back up.

 

[quinletc]

You may have to get a 1/2" or 3/4" and chuck it in a lathe and turn it down to the dimension you need. Maybe you'll get lucky and find what you need.
The main thing is the pilot hole to keep everything aligned and the 4 bolts to keep it square.good luck,sounds like you have a good handle on it. mike

I got one from Amazon: Flex-a-lite 14544 Mill Finish 1/2" Fan Spacer Kit (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CNLCHK/)

I realize it was designed to go between the pulley and the fan, but I don't see why it can't go between the pump and the pulley, to move the pulley into correct alignment.

Installing in the morning...

 

[gert]

I see you are from Memphis, I grew up in Memphis til my career path led me to Texas welcome aboard and good luck

 

[hole]

I got one from Amazon: Flex-a-lite 14544 Mill Finish 1/2" Fan Spacer Kit (https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CNLCHK/)

I realize it was designed to go between the pulley and the fan, but I don't see why it can't go between the pump and the pulley, to move the pulley into correct alignment.

Installing in the morning...

Putting the spacer behind the pulley will likely put more stress on the WP bearing and fail earlier because of it. Maybe 1/2" wont be too bad, but it changes the amount of pressure on the bearing, leverage thing

 

[quinletc]

I see you are from Memphis, I grew up in Memphis til my career path led me to Texas welcome aboard and good luck

Thanks! Always good to meet a fellow Memphian.

 

[quinletc]

Putting the spacer behind the pulley will likely put more stress on the WP bearing and fail earlier because of it. Maybe 1/2" wont be too bad, but it changes the amount of pressure on the bearing, leverage thing

Well, in the end, the spacer wouldn't work anyway. So I went with a fender washer.

I know... it's shade-tree mechanic work at its finest (worst?). But it was the only thing that would work.

So far, it's working great, and it's nowhere near a half-inch. The washer provides just enough clearance and change in belt-angle so that everything can turn freely.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

:rock:
It works, and is a solid fix. Good job.
I've lost count of how many times I have used washers as shims.
LG

 

[jafo]

I'll try to keep this to the point, but what should be a fairly simple job has me beating my head against the wall.

AMC 232 i6 L6 with power-nothing. Fan pulley, crank pulley, and alternator are the only things on the front of the engine.

Per my post a couple of weeks ago, I had some squealing under the hood and thought it might be the belt. Tried replacing the belt, but that wasn't it. Never have been able to get the exact belt that was on there. And that's been a hassle.

Fan was a bit wobbly. Then coolant started leaking from the bearing on the front of the water pump. OK, so I need a new pump.

Turns out AZ sold me the wrong water pump - bought it before I had taken the old one off. Go back, they don't have it and can't get it. Go to O'Reilly, they can order it. Fair enough.

Get the new pump. Decide that if I am going to replace the water pump, I should also replace the hoses and the thermostat (all of unknown age, but definitely not new). Take everything off, no sweat.

Go to get a thermostat. On the third try, AZ sells me the right one. Check that box.

AZ does has an upper radiator hose, but not a lower, and no heater hoses. O'Reilly has all that (though in two different stores).

Install pump and thermostat. Connect radiator hoses. Connect heater hoses to the heater core. Try to connect heater hoses to thermostat housing and water pump - hoses fit the core perfectly, but appear to be too small for the thermostat housing and water pump. Use grease and jam the hoses on.

Put fan pulley and fan back on. Fan pulley is scraping against the upper alternator support arm. WTH?! Turns out the shaft of the new water pump is almost a half inch shorter than the old one. The fan pulley is not in-line with the alternator and crank pulleys.

QUESTIONS:

1. Are the jammed-on 5/8" heater lines likely to cause a problem?

2. Would I be better off with 3/4" lines that have to be clamped on tight at the core end of the hose?

3. Assuming I can ever find a belt of the correct length and width, is the offset among the pulleys likely to cause a problem? (I assume so, but would be happy to be wrong.)

4. Would a properly sized fender washer on the hub of the water pump shaft make a proper spacer to get the fan pulley more in-line with the other pulleys?

5. Why is it so hard to find correct parts? (Semi-rhetorical question.)

I feel your pain. You're spot on with your auto parts store assessment. I bought a clutch kit for my '79 cj and got the right pressure plate but the wrong TOB in the kit. That was Orielly's. Then Autozone never has anything. Napa is great but usually higher but that's ok if it fits. Advance auto isn't bad either but about a step behind Napa.

Glad it's working out.

 

[quinletc]

I feel your pain. You're spot on with your auto parts store assessment. I bought a clutch kit for my '79 cj and got the right pressure plate but the wrong TOB in the kit. That was Orielly's. Then Autozone never has anything. Napa is great but usually higher but that's ok if it fits. Advance auto isn't bad either but about a step behind Napa.

Glad it's working out.

You may all know this, but it seems the geniuses at the auto parts stores don't. I figured it out when one of them (against store policy) allowed me to go back and look through their inventory of belts, trying to find one the correct length.

Looking at all the belts, hanging in a long line from shortest to longest, I realized that the part number corresponds (roughly) to the length of the belt. Hence, a 15430 and a 7430 belt are 43" long. A 7365 belt is 36.5" long. You get the idea.

This information would have been extremely handy the first couple of times I went into stores, looking for a belt of the correct length for my setup. When the belt that the computer said was supposed to go on my Jeep turned out to be too long, the parts counter guys had no idea how to help me find a shorter one.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Know'n the inventory, is the biggest reason I buy only from NAPA.
I will also take in the part I want to replace for a visual match up.
Remember, we are deal'n with a vehicle that hasn't been made in 31+ years.
LG

 

[gert]

Good info to have shame they don't invest any in the counter workers knowledge


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[mstar]

Interesting info here.Myself I have never been to a parts house that didn't know the numbering system for belts. I thought most consumers understood this also.It's so simple it's beyond believe. Oh well live and learn.