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73 CJ5 4.0 head on a 258, HEI, Holley Projection w/ 4.56, Detroit lockers Narrowed D44 front and full float D44 rear T14 w/ D20 4 wheel discs, 38.5 Boggers
73 CJ5 4.0 head on a 258, HEI, Holley Projection w/ 4.56, Detroit lockers Narrowed D44 front and full float D44 rear T14 w/ D20 4 wheel discs, 38.5 Boggers
73 CJ5 4.0 head on a 258, HEI, Holley Projection w/ 4.56, Detroit lockers Narrowed D44 front and full float D44 rear T14 w/ D20 4 wheel discs, 38.5 Boggers
A Dana 44 will take almost anything a 4 or 6cyl can dish out. An open diff is asking for it when 1 wheel goes airborn and comes down spinning 60 mph. It spins twice as fast as going down the road.
That's completely wrong... Everything about the D60 is bigger and stronger than a D44... lol
Ring and pinion are bigger
Axle Tubes are bigger/thicker/stronger you have to see the pictures to understand.
axle shafts a bigger and stronger
for the fronts the knuckles are way superior/thicker/kingpins(for the good ones)/Hubs are bigger/stronger
Even a HD D44 don't even come close to a D60.
All in all, a D44 is a D44 and a D60 is a D60....
Dana 44 axle is 30 spline / 1.31
And from Billavista's 'D60 tech' on Pirate4x4:
"1978 and later Stock Dana 60 outer 30 spline stub shafts (pn 40955) are 1.3125" at the splines (major diameter) and approximately 1.250" at the shank."
I'll stand by what I said...All you get with a D60 until you upgrade the outers to 35-spline is a very heavy Dana 44
Stock 30-spline D60 on the right, upgraded 35-spline D60 on the left
Sorry for the confusion. My original plan was- I bought a 1 ton 4x4 w/a 454ci,GM Turbo 400Transmission ,and a np205 tcase. This truck came w a dana60 frt end and a gm 14 bolt rear. My plan was to put this gear in my jeep. But I've been having 2nd thoughts on running such huge axles because realistically I prob have it on the road more then on the dirt. Because the area I live in doesn't have a lot trails to go to. W/ that said I still fig on this gear so I could run 35-38" tires and take it off road when the time came and not worry about busting stuff. So that's my story. Hopefully this helps a little. If u look bk through this thread there prob is more info on this project.
Dana 44 axle is 30 spline / 1.31
And from Billavista's 'D60 tech' on Pirate4x4:
"1978 and later Stock Dana 60 outer 30 spline stub shafts (pn 40955) are 1.3125" at the splines (major diameter) and approximately 1.250" at the shank."
I'll stand by what I said...All you get with a D60 until you upgrade the outers to 35-spline is a very heavy D44
Stock 30-spline D60 on the right, upgraded 35-spline D60 on the left
D60 Inners are 35 spline Outers are 30 spline... Dana 44 Inners are 30 spline Outers are 19 spline...
If you take a 30 spline Outer and toss it in a 44... Ok... that's like saying I am going to take a 35 sline outer and toss it on a 60... lol.
I'll take a D60 and build it over taking a Dana 44 and building it... Makes more sense... You'll spend more upfront on a 60 than a 44 but you won't put the kind of money into a 60 like you would a 44 just to get it up to the specs/strength of a 60. For those who swear by the 44's... Sure you can build them to be almost as strong as a D60 BUT, that's going to run you a lot of green... and for those who have dumped tons of that green stuff into a 44 you know what I am talking about... It's only a matter of time until the next weak link(s) fail.
Dana 60 Front:
9 3/4" Ring Gear (12 bolts) tooth width = 1.4370"
3 1/8" x 1/2" Tubes
1 5/8" Pinion Shaft Diameter (29 splines)
35 Spline Inners with 1 1/2" Diameter, Shaft = 1.41"
30 spline Outers with 1 5/16" Diameter, Shaft = 1.250"
Dana 44 Front:
8.5" Ring Gear
2 3/4" or 2 7/8" x 3/8" to 1/2" Tubes
1 3/8" Pinion Shaft Diameter (26 splines)
30 Spline Inners with 1 5/16" Diameter, Shaft = 1.18"
19 spline Outers with 1.155" Diameter, Shaft = 1 1/16"
Obviously the 60 is the heavier one and with that comes added strength in almost every avenue...
Once you start dropping coin into the 44 and you upgrade the outers to the 30 spline... what about the u-joints and ears... and if they don't pop your ring gear and pinion are arguably the next weak link... providing the long shaft doesn't snap... I can imagine teeth being popped of the ring gear if one were to wheel hard in tight-n-solid steep/rocky areas...
If you already have the 1 tons... use them.... especially if you plan on running that 454 and have a tendancy to "feel" the power....
Hold on with the Dana 60 argument. A FRONT Dana 60 see`s a whole lot different loads then a REAR Dana 60.
A rear Dana 60 is 95% of the time a 30 spline full float axle. Even the Dana 60 HD. Not much of an upgrade till the shafts are changed to 35`s. Which means boring the spindles out for clearance of the 1.5 diameter shafts. Even aftermarket 30 spline chromo shafts are not much of an upgrade. You need to go to 35 spline to see any appreciable strength increases.
For the money of the new shafts and boring/replacing the spindles. Plus a 35 spline carrier on the REAR Dana 60. Go to a STOCK 14 bolt. Gain even more strength for a hell of a lot less money. Sure you will drag it over everything but even that can be fixed cheaply.
A FRONT 60 see`s less load then a rear.....Remember it is easier to pull then to push......Why you see 14 bolts in the rear and 60`s up front. Or AMC20 `s in the rear and Dana 30 `s up front.
The main advantage of the FRONT 60 ......even with the 30 spline shafts........is the larger U joint. Larger then the 30`s 260x, newer 30`s/44`s 760x. The U joint and the ears of the shaft is by far the most common area of failure.
Have to be careful that when talking of axles we compare apples to apples.
I still stand that the OP could use his AMC20 with a few upgrades/Ford 8.8 with a few upgrades in the REAR.
A HP Dana 30 would be a good upgrade but all the HP`s are driver drop. Retubing an HP 30 for passenger drop would be a waste of money.
An argument could be made that a 44 would be an upgrade. Even though the 44 would use the same shafts as the newer/upgraded 30. Bigger, thicker axle tubes, larger ring/pinion gears. Heavier duty inner C`s and knuckles. Spindles, brakes etc.
Hold on with the Dana 60 argument. A FRONT Dana 60 see`s a whole lot different loads then a REAR Dana 60.
A rear Dana 60 is 95% of the time a 30 spline full float axle. Even the Dana 60 HD. Not much of an upgrade till the shafts are changed to 35`s. Which means boring the spindles out for clearance of the 1.5 diameter shafts. Even aftermarket 30 spline chromo shafts are not much of an upgrade. You need to go to 35 spline to see any appreciable strength increases.
For the money of the new shafts and boring/replacing the spindles. Plus a 35 spline carrier on the REAR Dana 60. Go to a STOCK 14 bolt. Gain even more strength for a hell of a lot less money. Sure you will drag it over everything but even that can be fixed cheaply.
A FRONT 60 see`s less load then a rear.....Remember it is easier to pull then to push......Why you see 14 bolts in the rear and 60`s up front. Or AMC 20`s in the rear and Dana 30`s up front.
The main advantage of the FRONT 60 ......even with the 30 spline shafts........is the larger U joint. Larger then the 30`s 260x, newer 30`s/44`s 760x. The U joint and the ears of the shaft is by far the most common area of failure.
Have to be careful that when talking of axles we compare apples to apples.
I still stand that the OP could use his AMC 20 with a few upgrades/Ford 8.8 with a few upgrades in the REAR.
A Dana 30 with aftermarket 760x shafts up FRONT.
A HP Dana 30 would be a good upgrade but all the HP`s are driver drop. Retubing an HP 30 for passenger drop would be a waste of money.
An argument could be made that a 44 would be an upgrade. Even though the 44 would use the same shafts as the newer/upgraded 30. Bigger, thicker axle tubes, larger ring/pinion gears. Heavier duty inner C`s and knuckles. Spindles, brakes etc.
I don't disagree with the 14 bolt rear as he already has a D60 front and a FF 14 bolt from his donor vehicle. I'm wondering if he has 3.73's, 4.10's or 4.56's in them.
For me, It's a no brainer to stay with the FF 14 bolt. If he dumps off the 1 tons the 8.8 is a decent upgrade compared to the stock axle... To make the 8.8 a slightly better axle there's the "C" clip eliminator... toss on a truss and then he'll have a solid/strong/light axle with disk brakes... Man, there are so many ways to slice the pie here. The Jeep 20 rear IMO isn't worth spending the time and money to get it where it'll take some abuse... (Gears/one piece conversion which is $$$ and it'll definitely need a truss seeing that the tubes are so small/thin)... Much easier and cost effective to get an 8.8 or 9"...
As for the front, a 44 would be an upgrade from the stock axle but it's definitely a down grade when it comes to the 60 that he already has. I just don't see much use in dumping money into building a 30 or 44.
For those who like things to last... you all know that once he gets bit by the bug he's going to be kicking himself in the Arse for selling the 1 tons... Just saying.
I don't disagree with the 14 bolt rear as he already has a D60 front and a FF 14 bolt from his donor vehicle. I'm wondering if he has 3.73's, 4.10's or 4.56's in them.
For me, It's a no brainer to stay with the FF 14 bolt. If he dumps off the 1 tons the 8.8 is a decent upgrade compared to the stock axle... To make the 8.8 a slightly better axle there's the "C" clip eliminator... toss on a truss and then he'll have a solid/strong/light axle with disk brakes... Man, there are so many ways to slice the pie here. The Jeep 20 rear IMO isn't worth spending the time and money to get it where it'll take some abuse... (Gears/one piece conversion which is $$$ and it'll definitely need a truss seeing that the tubes are so small/thin)... Much easier and cost effective to get an 8.8 or 9"...
As for the front, a 44 would be an upgrade from the stock axle but it's definitely a down grade when it comes to the 60 that he already has. I just don't see much use in dumping money into building a 30 or 44.
For those who like things to last... you all know that once he gets bit by the bug he's going to be kicking himself in the Arse for selling the 1 tons... Just saying.
You are on the money with the logic. Be better if the OP would run them full width. The big $$ comes into narrowing the front axle and then wheels/tires to clear what should be 17`s.
You are on the money with the logic. Be better if the OP would run them full width. The big $$ comes into narrowing the front axle and then wheels/tires to clear what should be 17`s.
yea yea we all disagree on something here, but the D60 is the best option because he already has it and they last forever even with larger tires, a friend of mine has been running 44" super swamper tsl's for the past 20 yrs on his and all he did was regear it, plus he has a dual Transfer Case setup that allows him to use the front end only, so therefore it has seen its fair share of abuse even with a detroit in it, but now since he wants to stay on the road the majority of the time, i would stay with a 35" tire instead just to help keep your center of gravity lower, and try to find a 70's model ford pickup, and just cut the 9" regear, and mod it like you want, then just cut just pull the tubes out of the Dana 44 front swap them and just cut the long one to fit your desired width, i know it sounds like a lot but for no more offroading than youll be doing, youll be alright. It can be done on a budget though the same guy that ran those 44's for 20 yrs also has an 85 cj and he has pulled the axle tubes out of both housings in his back yard where he has no equipment other than a torch and an arc welder on the back of a truck. And just a thought if you go with the ford axles there is somewhat of a rumor of a 3" diameter axle tube Dana 44 front out there
Lol...I concede. I was merely pointing out the upgrades needed on the 60...and probably without explaining my reasoning better. A D60 is overkill unless you are running 38" and up tires because of weight and clearance. And then you need to upgrade. If the OP plans on staying with a 37" and under tire on a D60, well hell...whats the argument?
But I know the trend....D60/14B now, small block, compound low gearing, and 40's later. That's why I innitially suggested just skipping the middle of the road and jumping to the 1-tons.
Looking at his intended usage, (20% offroad, 80% on) I would just stick with the 20 rearend and the 30 front and learn finesse wheeling. That's what I did and my 30/20 combo has survived big hp and 36's for quite some time now and I wheel in places guys are breaking 60's.
But...hang on to the 60/14 and prep it up for a swap. By no means get rid of it...Decide if you want to keep them fullwidth and turn your jeep into a trailer queen when you get tired of only 20% offroad, or narrow them for onroad use. But try running what you have and learn what your jeep is capable of. Honestly, with your intended use of it, I dont think you will have much of an issue as long as you use throttle control (not hard with an I4) and dont bind up the frontend.
Do the 1pc conversion on the rear. If the many years I've been successfully running mine over every terrain possible is nothing more then a fluke, then you can sell it off. There are plenty of people willing to pay for a slightly built 20 because of ease of installment and moderate strength.
yea yea we all disagree on something here, but the D60 is the best option because he already has it and they last forever even with larger tires, a friend of mine has been running 44" super swamper tsl's for the past 20 yrs on his and all he did was regear it, plus he has a dual transfercase setup that allows him to use the front end only, so therefore it has seen its fair share of abuse even with a detroit in it, but now since he wants to stay on the road the majority of the time, i would stay with a 35" tire instead just to help keep your center of gravity lower, and try to find a 70's model ford pickup, and just cut the 9" regear, and mod it like you want, then just cut just pull the tubes out of the D44 front swap them and just cut the long one to fit your desired width, i know it sounds like a lot but for no more offroading than youll be doing, youll be alright. It can be done on a budget though the same guy that ran those 44's for 20 yrs also has an 85 cj and he has pulled the axle tubes out of both housings in his back yard where he has no equipment other than a torch and an arc welder on the back of a truck. And just a thought if you go with the ford axles there is somewhat of a rumor of a 3" diameter axle tube D44 front out there
bdunnam - Take this is you would like. You offer great info but, The post I quoted is absolutely the most difficult I have ever had to read. If you would like others to respond to your post instead of "skipping" over them, use punctuation...
With his plans on running 20% offroad with 37" tires he won't have to change anything on the D60... I know many people who beat on their stock 60's with larger tires... their common response is along the lines of... I'll run it until it breaks... and so far it hasn't broke.
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