Which is worse? SR4 or T4?

[Irish fan]

This may be a silly question to those who've already done Chevy engine/tranny or TorqueFlite conversions. However, I don't have that kind of money to spend, especially on a 2nd Jeep that I might only keep until the first one can get some collision repair. The more I spend on #2's tranny repair/replacement, the longer it will be before i can start the much bigger expense on the first. (1983 Scrambler with better running gear all around)

It's a 1981 Scrambler with the original SR4 (117k miles). It started making A LOT of noise and vibration in 2nd gear. Some in other gears too. It's been jumping out of 2nd gear for several thousands miles when there is driveline slack. The options I see so far (in almost lowest to highest $ order) )are:

1) A rebuilt SR4 for $500 + around $80 shipping from Storks Plows. No core charge.

2) A used T-4 for for $425 or BEST OFFER + around $85 shipping from Deadjeeps on eBay (100% approval). He said he drove it before salvaging the good parts and it had 102k miles.

3) A rebuilt T-4 for $750 + $200 core + around $85 shipping. From Storks Plows. $1,020 total

4) Storks also has a rebuilt T-176 /177 (has the 177 gears in it, a plus because of the slightly lower 1st gear). It doesn't have the top and shifter though, so $750 + $250 core + $85 shipping + $415 - $500? Top/shifter + $85 - $100 tunnel cover and boot + guesstimate $45 more for shipping for tunnel cover and shifter comes to a (staggering for me at this time) $1,720 before getting drive shafts. I would be willing to "borrow" the T-176 drive shafts from my 1st jeep but really nothing more. For that kind of money I might as well get a turnkey rebuilt (reman?) Novak adapted SM465 around $1,900 including shipping. I think SM420/465 can use my SR4 length Driveshafts? (Ive been typing to long to remember)

Finally my questions are:

Since T-4 has a core value and SR4 doesn't, I'm asking is it $520 better than an SR4 ? (Both being rebuilt)

Is a used T-4 worth saving $75 - $AMC 150 over a rebuilt SR4 for $500,

Lol! Has anybody read down this far?

Does anybody here have a donor or $50 core to get rid of?

Does anybody have a good or better used 4 speed to sell, or know any other/better sources than the ones I mentioned above.?

I've checked the oldest 4wd shop in my area and a few local guys who have salvage jeeps.

Thanks for any thoughts/advice!

 

[Hedgehog]

Please don't waste your money on an SR4 . I had one rebuilt 3 times in a month before the shop refused to do it again and gave me my money back. Even then it was worse than before the rebuilds.

THe T-4 is a better Transmission , not a great deal better, but better. Willys Works here in Tucson has a perfectly rebuilt T-4 (it could be a T-5 but I'm not sure) sitting on the floor ready to go. Call Rob (520) 888-5082 you won't be sorry. He might come off as a little brisk, but he's a very good guy with a ton of experience and advice. He hates it when he talks to someone for a time and they say, "Thanks, I'll buy it on the internet."

 

[Lumpy Grits]

:ww:
Parts for either are get'n hard to find.
How well those trannys last also depends on your R&P ratio and tire size.

LG

 

[gert]

T-5 direct swap for the T-4 and you get a Overdrive


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Irish fan]

Thanks Hedgehog, I'll give him a call, and brisk is ok, understandable. Hopefully its the right Transmission for the righ price and we won't need to talk long.

The desk guy at our areas 4wd shop said he had a SR4 blow up after a rebuild too! His on the drive home from the shop the same day it was rebuilt! Sounds like they don't rebuild well at all...shot is shot eh? He said T-4 T-5 is around 20-25% better than SR4 , similar to your opinion or experience too. Hopefully the T-4 T-5 price range is only 20-25% higher than SR4 .

He also said the T-176 is around 50% better than T-4 T-5 . As with most things, it's apparently you get what you pay for"

 

[Hedgehog]

I got 1 day out of the first rebuild and it was never better after that. To bad really, in my ignorance I really liked the SR4 until it did what SR4 's do. The T-176 is a pretty good Transmission . Remember when doing this sort of thing it won't be just the Transmission , it might be a clutch and all it's components as well. Then the drive shafts might be a consideration. From what I can gather the three (SR4 , T-4 & T-5 ) interchange without driveshaft issues.

Listen to Lumpy on this. If you are running near stock tires you will be all right. Big horse power and big tires are not kind to a T-4 /T-5 .

 

[Irish fan]

The R&P is 3:54 and the tires are 33" radial A/T Sport Kings. To me they look much more road worthy than trail. They weigh less and aren't as tall inflated on the rim as as the bias ply Super Swamper 33" TSLs on my first jeep. I don't see myself ever wanting to go bigger than that. No V-8s in my future either. I'm thinking it's still asking a lot of the T-4 T-5 .

I love the idea of having an Overdrive gear,...but not as much if it makes the T-5 is a little more problematic than the T-4 .

Good next question for me!
Is there any real or perceived difference in the failure rate between T-4 and T-5 ? Exact same case for each, right? Is there any gears, shafts Etc less hefty on the T-5 to mak room for the extra gear?

 

[Hedgehog]

They are the same. The case has an extra lump on one side for the extra gear. That's largely the easiest way to tell the difference. Why do I know this? This spring Rob had both on the floor at the same time and he went over the differences with me.

 

[HackFabrication]

Honestly, I'd scrap the SR4 /T-4 idea, and go with the T-176 /177 swap. Much better Transmission . IMHO, the T-176 was the best manual Transmission AMC put in the CJ's for street/trail use. Hardcore, you should be looking into the T-18 , T19, SM420 (getting hard to find), SM465, NP435. Want an O/D? The T-5 get's a bad rep on the net, but a lot of the durability problems are related to either mixing big HP, or big tires, and/or wrong gearing with it. I'd still recommend going right to the NV3500 (or NV4500 - if running lots of HP/TQ) or AX15. But there is still no effective way to get around having the correct gearing for larger diameter tires, other than swapping R&P's.

 

[hole]

Give these guys a call, always had good dealings with them. Shipping might be the problem....
Have some Jeep Manual Transmissions

4 Speed T-4 Manual Transmission $300.00

4 Speed T-176 Manual Transmission $300.00

Core 4 Speed T-176 Manual Transmission $100.00

T-18 Manual Transmission $400.00

Call Inland Jeep 909-877-9332 or Text to 909-346-6328

 

[Petescj]

Honestly, I'd scrap the SR4 /T-4 idea, and go with the T-176 /177 swap. Much better Transmission . IMHO, the T-176 was the best manual Transmission AMC put in the CJ's for street/trail use. Hardcore, you should be looking into the T-18 , T19, SM420 (getting hard to find), SM465, NP435. Want an O/D? The T-5 get's a bad rep on the net, but a lot of the durability problems are related to either mixing big HP, or big tires, and/or wrong gearing with it. I'd still recommend going right to the NV3500 (or NV4500 - if running lots of HP/TQ) or AX15. But there is still no effective way to get around having the correct gearing for larger diameter tires, other than swapping R&P's.

I'd never replace a T-4 or SR4 with the same.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Honestly, I'd scrap the SR4 /T-4 idea, and go with the T-176 /177 swap. Much better Transmission . IMHO, the T-176 was the best manual Transmission AMC put in the CJ's for street/trail use. Hardcore, you should be looking into the T-18 , T19, SM420 (getting hard to find), SM465, NP435. Want an O/D? The T-5 get's a bad rep on the net, but a lot of the durability problems are related to either mixing big HP, or big tires, and/or wrong gearing with it. I'd still recommend going right to the NV3500 (or NV4500 - if running lots of HP/TQ) or AX15. But there is still no effective way to get around having the correct gearing for larger diameter tires, other than swapping R&P's.

Go with the T-176 with your gears and tires.
LG

 

[Hedgehog]

While I agree on the superiority of the T-176 we have to take into consideration the points the OP made in his first post. He is fairly close on money and can't spend any more money than is possible. The T-176 is quite a bit more expensive, then there would be a few hundred more in driveshaft modifications. I'm not sure about bell housing compatibility. With out a doubt a properly rebuilt T-4 is superior to the SR4 in every way. I am a little nervous about the tire size and a T-4 , 33's are not to be ignored. Definitely an SR4 killer.

 

[Lumpy Grits]

Red beans and rice makes a good meal to offset the costs.


LG

 

[Belizean]

Red beans and rice along with sausage plus cornbread is an every Monday staple in the New Orleans area.

 

[Petescj]

Sent you a pm Irish fan.

 

[Irish fan]

I called Hedgehog's friend Rob today (Monday). It's a T-4 that he has ready to go, and at what I think is a good-fair price. I like this option because he'll take my SR4 in exchange too. It occured to me later however that I will be paying shipping twice to send a core. $80-$85 inbound becomes $160-170 total added to my cost. Just something else for me to consider.

Rob also gave me a number for another guy (Vic) in his area that has a rebuilt T-5 and a used something or other. Vic promptly asked if I was calling from AZ or AR because he doesn't do any shipping so there wasn't any point in finding out what he had.

I also called one # and sent a text to the other for Inland Jeep recommended by Hole above. The items Hole listed with prices are very intrigueing. With the $100 T-176 core (if it comes with a shifter would save me $AMC 150 of the $250 core charge needed to buy the rebuilt T-176 at Storks Plows and another $400-$500 for the shifter that Storks doesn't have.

That sounds great but since Inland hasn't returned my call or text I'm gussing he doesn't want to mess with shipping either.

Hole, since you provided the phone number and list of trannies for Inland, do you know, or can you find out for me if either T-176 has a shifter? And does the T-18 have the output shaft for mating to the Dana 300 and the 10 spline input in correct length for CJ and AMC L6? (is same as AMC V8). Info provided by Novack Adapttion said Jeeps T-18 option only had one year (1980) when they were configured to mate with Dana 300 T case. With the CJ length input if I'm remembering correctly.

NEW QUSTION! I just remembered another issue I would have with switching to a T-176 . As you know it uses one big, double boot with one side for the tranny stick and the other for the T case. The previous owner put a twin stick shifter on this jeep which uses its own small double boot for just the twin sticks. How do you boot a T-176 shifter with the twin stick boot?

Thank,you all for the great replies and keep the ideas coming!

 

[Irish fan]

I forgot to mention. I love red beans and rice, with sausage of course! And I mostly drink the cheapest beer made.

And Lumpy, you had me feeling good about the T-5 before your last post. �� I figured your 1985's T-5 is the original. I intended to ask you before if it was and have you ever had to do anything to it?
Did you order your 1985 T-5 from the factory with the 4.88 gears? If not what R&P did it come with and how many miles on your rig when you made the switch?

For the T-176 fans here. I am one too and I was dead set on getting one until all I saw out there was one on eBay ($995) and the rebuilt one ($750) at Storks that I trust more than EBay. And like I first said, adding a bigger core cost, new shafts, cover and boot was more than twice the money I thought it would cost. Ha! You can tell I never had to shop for a tranny before. (My first jeep has a T-176 and obviously that's why LOL)
I hope I can find one in good shape without breaking my bank.

Anyway, I started this thread to see if larger pool of Jeepers agreed with my local shop guy that a T-4 T-5 was at least somewhat better, or enough better than SR4 to not have to replace or rebuild one again. Enough of you said it would, barring the extremes of mismatch tire to -R&P, V8 power and extreme frequent four wheeling hat I feel pretty good about it.

I'm gonna keep looking for a "reasonably priced for my budget" T-176 for a few more days while also working a job, some odd jobs and starting to remove the old gearbox. If nothing Turns up I'll likely pull the trigger on Robs T-4 that Hedgehog referred me to.

PLEASE keep the ideas and leads coming! So VERY much appreciated sincerely! And of course ☘����.....I HAVE ANOTHER good QUESTION...
Is there a market for good used drive shafts tha fit T-4 T-5 CJs??? I hope to have a couple I no longer need. I had to put some good money in the front shaft last year and new u joints on both ends of front and one on the back. The back shaft is for a scrambler

 

[gert]

I think you will be fine with whatever you choose, it dosent sound like you will be pushing anyone of the transmissions you are looking at very hard

of course you could wait it out for one of these NV4500/Dana 300 4 to 1 twin stick

 

[Posi]

Could be a T-176 in the ad below, you won't know unless you ask or go look. I once found a warn OD sitting behind some Willy truck doors I was looking to buy from a CL ad. The doors weren't in good shape so I passed however, I did buy the OD.

https://littlerock.craigslist.org/pts/5766271180.html