Engine not starting

[thistle3585]

How are the wires held on to it?

Brand new plastic piece like the original.

 

[mtnwhlr]

Brand new plastic piece like the original.

I think that is your problem. I got a MSD blaster coil with studs and a nuts for the wires and chucked that plastic piece of and have never and a problem again.

 

[thistle3585]

Well, back at it again with no success. I took the suggestions offered and wired the ignition coil direct and put new ground cables in. I'm going to go back through the ignition switch on the column and see if I can find something. I really don't know what else to do. Its been really frustrating because I can't find a mechanic that can figure it out either.

 

[Torxhead]

So are you still at the "Starts and runs for a while, then quits" situation?

 

[thistle3585]

It doesn't start. It doesn't even cough.

 

[Torxhead]

So have you determined whether it is lacking spark or fuel yet?

 

[thistle3585]

It has spark. I have fuel pressure and I can see in the carb where it is getting fuel. I did notice that there may be a fuel leak where the shaft from the throttle plate goes in to the housing. I'm going to try and track down a rebuild diagram to see if there is a seal or such that needs replacing.

 

[cerrajero]

Can you please post a pic of the steering column
Testing ign is easy

But a pic sure would help

 

[BusaDave9]

It seems this thread has been heading off in a dozen different directions. After 5 pages we still don't seem to know if the problem is spark or fuel. You've been replacing parts. Symptoms change. With a new or re-installed distributor it could be the timing is so far out that it won't run. You say it's getting a spark. If the timing is right poring a little gas in the carb should start it up. Lets stop changing things until we know where we stand.

 

[thistle3585]

What part of the steering column? I just put a new, used one in about four months ago, but it ran since then. The PO had cut the harness and wired the ignition through a switch on the dash, so I had to re do it when I put the new column in. I had to make custom connections to the ignition switch. I literally just returned from a salvage yard where I pulled OEM plugs off a another CJ so that I could replace my "custom" plugs with the OEM plugs. I hope to do that this afternoon or tomorrow. I can take photos while I'm there if you can tell me what you are looking for.

Here is the thread where I discussed my column swap with the ignition in particular. http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f7/ignition-switch-column-17129/

 

[thistle3585]

It seems this thread has been heading off in a dozen different directions. After 5 pages we still don't seem to know if the problem is spark or fuel. You've been replacing parts. Symptoms change. With a new or re-installed distributor it could be the timing is so far out that it won't run. You say it's getting a spark. If the timing is right poring a little gas in the carb should start it up. Lets stop changing things until we know where we stand.

Dave,
It has done the same thing throughout the thread. At best, it would sputter for a few seconds then die. The things I replaced were because people kept telling me they thought it was this or that, so I replaced that part. I did have a mechanic replace the distributor because he said the stator was shot. He also set the timing, got it to run for about 15-20 minutes. I got in it, started it and drove it 100 yards before it died, at which point it went right back to doing what it was doing before they replaced the distributor. Obviously, something happened when they were working on the distributor but I couldn't tell you what it was. He said he'd come check the timing again but doesn't see why it would have changed in 100 yards. I do have spark. I used a spark plug tester and it jumped the gap. I can see fuel going in to the carb. It wont start with starter fluid either. I am so far out of my knowledge base that I'm willing to try just about anything. At this point, I have a "bucket list" of things I want to do to it. So, I am simply doing the things on that list that might have something to do with the problem or it eliminates a possible cause. I don't know what else to do at this point. Two full time mechanics can't figure it out.

 

[cerrajero]

i agree with busa
but still with a few pics of the "new" column
and a few quick test
you can rule out key switch, rack and sector and rod
and i never saw if this is a manual tranny or automatic

Neutral safety switch rewired/bypassed can and has caused similar symptons
rod bent can cause similar
ignition switch with bad spring can cause similar
broken tooth on rack and sector could cause similar

it idles ok
100 yards dies
vibration causing either wires to "bump" each other
ignition to slide back a little
auto tranny column to slide out of place

if auto tranny and the PO install dash mounted ign then they couldve bypassed other things as well

but now rereading all post i have a feeling that there are 2 or more wires that are frayed and making contact with each other

 

[thistle3585]

Its a manual Transmission . Since I started this thread, we got it started once after replacing the distributor and setting the timing at which point it idled in the driveway for about 20 minutes. It was turned off then back on and I drove it one hundred yards before it died. I haven't been able to get it running since. I'll post photos of the column on Sunday.

 

[brotherjohn]

Its typical for a little gas to leak out the throttle plate if your pouring it in from the top.
A few things I'd make sure of is that its good and clean where the distributor sits on the block. I would re-do my ground connections making sure they were not only tight but had good copper to connector to metal connection.
Do you have top mount battery post with the screw down clamps? If you had sparks at the battery then tightened it down you may have a tight connection but you might just be holding on to just a few good strands of copper and a bunch of burnt ones?

 

[thistle3585]

Its typical for a little gas to leak out the throttle plate if your pouring it in from the top.
A few things I'd make sure of is that its good and clean where the distributor sits on the block. I would re-do my ground connections making sure they were not only tight but had good copper to connector to metal connection.
Do you have top mount battery post with the screw down clamps? If you had sparks at the battery then tightened it down you may have a tight connection but you might just be holding on to just a few good strands of copper and a bunch of burnt ones?

Both battery cables have been replaced including grounds and starter, so I don't see that being an issue. I can't speak to the cleanliness of the block but I will check it. I have not been pouring fuel down the carb but I have probably flooded it a couple times trying to get it to start.

 

[thistle3585]

The final consensus is that there isn't enough compression for it to start. I am planning on putting in a new engine. I had been planning a frame up restoration this coming winter but it looks like I'll be starting a bit earlier.

 

[BusaDave9]

I've never heard of an engine having such low compression that it won't run. I'm not even sure it's possible. Compression lowers gradually, the rings wear, the valves stick. The compression lowers. I have never heard of an engine running one week and then the compression is too low to drive it. You can even blow a hole in a piston but it will still run on the other cylinders. That's the most sudden drop in compression I can think of but it would still drive.
What is the compression (or leak-down) on each cylinder?

I don't know what is wrong with your engine but I am having a hard time believing it's compression. I've blown engines. I've spun connecting rod bearings (and still drove home). I've seized engines (yes plural). But I have never heard of an engine suddenly getting such low compression that it wouldn't drive.

I don't know what is wrong with your engine. I'm stumped but I think if the jeep was in a garage and a mechanic were to check fuel, spark and compression it should be possible to figure out what is wrong. I can't say with this conversation over the internet what is wrong but it would be easier on site to double-check the basic needs of an engine. There really isn't a whole lot an engine needs to run, mainly spark and gas.

Now if your engine has such low compression that it needs to be rebuilt then go that route instead of trying to rise a dead horse from the grave.

 

[thistle3585]

The first time I did the compression check I got 60 pounds on two cylinders then later was told I was doing it wrong, so I redid it and it varied between 90 and 100. I took it to an automotive electrical guy today and he said he was getting about 25 in compression. The reason that I took it to the electrical guy is because I didn't think it was getting the spark that it needed even though mechanic number three said it was. Mechanic two said that there should be a bit of vacuum if you cover the carb when cranking it and he didn't feel anything. In fact, he installed a new distributor and timed it then came back twice and did it again to make sure it was right. He didn't charge me for parts or labor because he still couldn't get it to run.

In all, I've gotten six pages of advice here and have had four mechanics look at it. I'm obviously in over my head and its getting to the point that shelling out $1300 for a new motor seems to be much easier than screwing with it. My concern is that I'm going to put a new motor in it and figure out its electrical. Deep down, I believe that is what it is even though everyone is telling me otherwise.

Anyone want to talk it out, I have a toll free line or come on down to Columbus, IN and take a look at it. I'll make a steak dinner. My wife works for a butcher.

 

[TroyaCantrell]

I agree with some of the guys that it doesn't sound like a compression issue. If it ran at idle and then drove 100 yards and died unless you heard one hell of a a racket coming from the engine before it died that is probably not it.

How did you do the compression test, is your gauge screw in or hold in?

If compression were an issue the starter fluid would still work because it is so much more flammable and already partly atomized. Have you tried starter fluid since you put in the new distro?

Sounds electrical or a combo of a lot of things.

An auto parts store should have a spark tester, clear plastic thing goes between spark plug and wire so you can see it. Or one that flashes with the spark. Check all cylinders.

Electrical can be a bitch, it sounds like a lot of things were changed is there is a lot to track down. Can you remove / disconnect some of the other electronic components and get it down to the basics?

Run some extra ground wires right off the battery to the components.

If you have been cranking and cranking what is the voltage in the battery? Make sure it is up near 14.4V, use a starter booster to get it up there.

I haven't read the whole thread but if you have a weak battery, low spark, low compression, bad timing, bad plugs and or wires you will have a hell of a time chasing it down.

But because it ran with a new distributor
and then died and will not start again I would put money on electrical. Check all fuses, fusible link, distributor, condenser, coil, inspect all the electrical, every wire in the starting /running system to look for a bad wire/break.

What voltage is the alternator putting out? Too low is a problem to high could be blowing something.

Sorry you are having so many issues but jumping to a new engine when it might not solve the problem will really make you mad.

 

[thistle3585]

Troya,
I agree and I too think it is electrical but it doesn't do me any good if the electrical repair guy shrugs it off as low compression. I'm kind of left high and dry.
In a nutshell, in case you don't want to read the entire thread, I am getting spark and fuel. The one time it started was after having replaced the distributor and reset the timing. If it sits for awhile, I think because it gets flooded so often trying to start it, it will cough or try to start.

I have replaced the following over the last two months.
Steering column which would include the ignition switch
Battery with cables
ground wires
solenoid
ignition control module
ignition coil
distributor
spark plugs
spark plug wires
fuel pump
rebuilt starter
new carb gaskets