232 still wont run in my 77 CJ7 ???

232 still wont run in my 77 CJ7 ???
Ya don't care (while you're doing this) if the damper has slipped or not - it's off when you do all this. Ya don't even care much if the chain has jumped... you rotate the crankshaft until its timing mark points straight at the center of the camshaft sprocket and the camshaft timing mark is NEAR where it's supposed to be. Pull the sprockets & chain together, put the camshaft sprocket back on & rotate the camshaft with it by hand until it's pointing correctly (ten degrees max if it's jumped one tooth), then pull the camshaft sprocket back off again & put the set on together. Surely it won't have jumped ten teeth, right? Then when you count chain teeth, you're verifying that it's exactly correct. There can't be any more or less than 15 chain pins if it's together wrong.

A TDC finder may come in handy for something else at some time, though... and it WILL help make the job go a little quicker as long as you're definitely finding TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke. If you find TDC between exhaust & intake strokes with it, you still have to rotate the crankshaft 360 degrees by hand to get the timing marks on the sprockets to line up.

I dunno. For changing out the timing chain, I think a TDC finder is more gimmick than anything else. It's certainly far from necessary. Now... if you suspect that your damper has slipped, the TDC finder will verify THAT for you for sure for sure.
 
TDHofstetter said:
Ya don't care (while you're doing this) if the damper has slipped or not - it's off when you do all this. Ya don't even care much if the chain has jumped... you rotate the crankshaft until its timing mark points straight at the center of the camshaft sprocket and the camshaft timing mark is NEAR where it's supposed to be. Pull the sprockets & chain together, put the camshaft sprocket back on & rotate the camshaft with it by hand until it's pointing correctly (ten degrees max if it's jumped one tooth), then pull the camshaft sprocket back off again & put the set on together. Surely it won't have jumped ten teeth, right? Then when you count chain teeth, you're verifying that it's exactly correct. There can't be any more or less than 15 chain pins if it's together wrong.

A TDC finder may come in handy for something else at some time, though... and it WILL help make the job go a little quicker as long as you're definitely finding TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke. If you find TDC between exhaust & intake strokes with it, you still have to rotate the crankshaft 360 degrees by hand to get the timing marks on the sprockets to line up.

I dunno. For changing out the timing chain, I think a TDC finder is more gimmick than anything else. It's certainly far from necessary. Now... if you suspect that your damper has slipped, the TDC finder will verify THAT for you for sure for sure.
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Thats great info, now im a little lost at this moment, so please lead me down the right path and correct me if im wrong.

So after i get all the junk off pull the timing cover off and have the engine at TDC, The two sprockets should have the timing marks lined up right? if it hasnt jumped. If it has jumped the two indications of timing marks will be off. Now will i have to remove the water pump to do the timing chain? but back on to the topic, When i put the new gears in and on shouldnt the timing marks be alligned?
 
CoreyYoungCj577 said:
Thats great info, now im a little lost at this moment, so please lead me down the right path and correct me if im wrong.

So after i get all the junk off pull the timing cover off and have the engine at TDC, The two sprockets should have the timing marks lined up right? if it hasnt jumped. If it has jumped the two indications of timing marks will be off. Now will i have to remove the water pump to do the timing chain? but back on to the topic, When i put the new gears in and on shouldnt the timing marks be alligned?
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Like this:
http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=2470&stc=1&d=1267930232

CJ, this is how I found it. IE no tags.;)
 
You won't need to disturb the water pump.

When you get the timing cover off with the motor at TDC compression stroke, here's exactly what your timing chain & sprockets should look like:

2mre4q9.jpg

Now... if you're at TDC between the exhaust & intake strokes, the smaller crankshaft sprocket's timing mark will still be at the same position, but the camshaft sprocket's timing mark will be diametrically opposite - it'll be pointing up to the 8:00 position instead. You'll want to roll the crankshaft over 360 degrees (one full turn) if that's the case - then the camshaft sprocket will be lined up correctly again.

If the chain has jumped one tooth, it'll be impossible to get it all lined up as in the picture - the camshaft sprocket will have rotated 10 degrees per tooth jumped. It's REALLY UNLIKELY that it'll have jumped more than one tooth, 'cause once it jumps a tooth it starts running like hammered :dung:.

So... your goal will be to get the timing mark on the smaller CRANKSHAFT sprocket to be exactly in a straight line drawn between the center of the crankshaft and the center of the camshaft. That is absolutely, positively, the position you want, regardless of anything else - camshaft, distributor, damper, anything.

At that point, the timing mark on the larger camshaft sprocket should be ALSO on that line, the straight line between the center of the crankshaft & the center of the camshaft. If it's not, the chain has jumped a tooth... but that's why we're here, and after we get the chain off we can rotate the camshaft to where it NEEDS to be if it's not there already.

So... now that we've got the camshaft positioned & the chain & sprockets off, we hang the new chain around the new sprockets as best we can so that the timing marks are pointed towards each other just like in the picture again. We put the whole rig together on the crank & camshaft ends, verifying once more as soon as they'll hang there by themselves. If we're a tooth off, it'll be pretty obvious. If we're not, we finish putting 'em on.

Once they're fully in place, we can relax about not disturbing the engine and rotate the crankshaft around to this position:

2usud80.jpg

That's where we can count the chain teeth. Go ahead, count 'em in the picture - there's 15. That's exactly what yours needs to look like. If it's anything else, we've gotta' do it again... but that's what it's gonna' look like 'cause you pay attention to detail, right? :)

Now that it's there & verified, it won't hurt to squirt some clean motor oil all over the chain with an oil can so it gets a good start on life. It's probably already lubed when it arrives, which accounts for the condition of your hands right now... but it can't hurt to add a little more good wet oil.

That's it - chain's replaced, valve train's timed. Time to get the timing cover & fan back on.
 
You guys are the best thanks for simplifying it down TD, and Longhorn and everyone else, im going to order the puller and the TDC finder and the Timing Chain and gasket set, and hopefully i can get it running this week.
 
CoreyYoungCj577 said:
You guys are the best thanks for simplifying it down TD, and Longhorn and everyone else, im going to order the puller and the TDC finder and the Timing Chain and gasket set, and hopefully i can get it running this week.
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Get a new oil seal for the cover.:cool:
 
IOPort51 said:
Get a new oil seal for the cover.:cool:
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Well i found a place that has the gasket set with the oil seal and the timing set all in all im only gonna be into it 41 dollars im gonna order the TDC finder and a craftsman puller. This is the website im ordering it from CJ7 Parts and Accessories any of you guys ever hear of it? Another thing do i need a puller to take the gears out? i just read on another forum that i would need a gear puller?!?!
 
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Yep - they're one of my regular vendors. Got a pretty long list of 'em... :)

EDIT: Their Website doesn't work very well with my monitor, though... :(
 
Wow from cali to vermont lol seems a little far for a vendor but they looked good and the prices were right, but i dont need a gear puller for the timing gears do i? and i think im gonna go local for the puller and order the TDC finder tomorrow
 
Nope, no gear puller for the timing sprockets. In fact, you MUST NOT use a puller for those - you can break 'em & be in a world of hurt.

They just come off with firm finger pressure.
 
TDHofstetter said:
Nope, no gear puller for the timing sprockets. In fact, you MUST NOT use a puller for those - you can break 'em & be in a world of hurt.

They just come off with firm finger pressure.
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Good deal, thanks again TD for alot of the help as of everyone else, im only 18 :p so beer with me :chug: after i build this 7 i wont have to ask much more, just simple stuff :D
 
Just a quick thought from what i found in the paper ? AMC 304 amc 50 bucks, AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l with a remaned head 100? im half tempted to buy them both just to have it haha, Oh ya timing chain set should be here sometime next week! :D
 
Good gods... for THAT kind of money, how can you leave 'em there? Go GRAB 'em! Even if nothing else, they'd both be excellent educational opportunities. That's CHEAP EXPERIENCE right there.

Even if NOTHING else... they can both be parted out. A good timing cover for a AMC 304 /360/390/401 sells for nearly $250 new, should sell for a good hundred used. Heads - a pair of good AMC 304 heads, magnafluxed & with a valve job & ready to go, should be worth at least a hundred. Crank - polished & ready to go - should be worth a hundred to a hundred fifty. Forget the camshaft if you won't be using the engine.

The best value, though, is the experience of rebuilding both motors. Then ya wind up with a spare AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l (or AMC 232 i6 ; lots of folks automatically believe that an I6 is a AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l ) and a good rebuilt AMC 304 for market.

If BIllings wasn't so dang far from Vermont, I'd be on 'em in a heartbeat... :)
 
TDHofstetter said:
Good gods... for THAT kind of money, how can you leave 'em there? Go GRAB 'em! Even if nothing else, they'd both be excellent educational opportunities. That's CHEAP EXPERIENCE right there.

Even if NOTHING else... they can both be parted out. A good timing cover for a AMC 304 /360/390/401 sells for nearly $250 new, should sell for a good hundred used. Heads - a pair of good AMC 304 heads, magnafluxed & with a valve job & ready to go, should be worth at least a hundred. Crank - polished & ready to go - should be worth a hundred to a hundred fifty. Forget the camshaft if you won't be using the engine.

The best value, though, is the experience of rebuilding both motors. Then ya wind up with a spare AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l (or AMC 232 i6 ; lots of folks automatically believe that an I6 is a AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l ) and a good rebuilt AMC 304 for market.

If BIllings wasn't so dang far from Vermont, I'd be on 'em in a heartbeat... :)
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Thats what i was thinking to for the price of AMC 150 bucks which i could probably just give the guy 100 for both hopefully, why the hell not. I get two engines but im not 100% there complete im going to call him here in a bit, but i recently decided that im going to enroll in college this coming fall for diesel technology or gas rigs, since Sami(the soon to be wife) is gonna be my suga momma rolling in the big bucks as a psychologist, ill do something that wont break my back like construction, and something that i like to do, Work on trucks and rigs.
 
So i called the guy about the AMC 304 engine yesterday, good news is that there is nothing wrong with, he is just getting rid of extra parts, but its in pieces and the AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l wasnt the engine just a remaned head. But i kept talking to him and ended up getting his sons number because they dropped a 350/th350 into his 76 CJ7 well his son has a T-18a,a AMC 258 i6 / 4.2l with 85k miles, and a rear AMC20 with one piece axles but a broke ring and pinion and alot of other misc items. So tomorrow im gonna call and see if i can offer him help with moving in trade for the jeep parts, since hes not using them :p
 
That AMC 304 sure sounds like a good project. BE SURE TO GET THE FLYWHEEL and the BELL HOUSING.

That T18A would be a good thing to leap onto, too... and the AMC20 axle!
 
TDHofstetter said:
That AMC 304 sure sounds like a good project. BE SURE TO GET THE FLYWHEEL and the BELL HOUSING.

That T18A would be a good thing to leap onto, too... and the AMC20 axle!
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Well I havent been able to call the guy about the Transmission or AMC20 because he works odd hours and the AMC 304 is in pieces and i dont know if has the bell housing and the flywheel i think is warped he said, but a guy e-mailed me about a 77 CJ5 with a AMC 304 and 4 speed and i checked my chiltons, the only Transmission that it could be is a T-18A, so im gonna go look at that today.
 
Yep, that was the only available 4-speed from '71 to '80. There aren't many out there, so it's worth getting if only for general principles.
 
TDHofstetter said:
Yep, that was the only available 4-speed from '71 to '80. There aren't many out there, so it's worth getting if only for general principles.
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Isnt it the T-18A with 6.32 to 1 ratio that was available. The chilton said it was the T-18A if its just the T-18 one im not going to worry about going to look.
 
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