232 still wont run in my 77 CJ7 ???

[CoreyYoungCj577]

Um... "won't move"... the balancer, or the Jeep, or the radiator/grille, or the crankshaft timing? The Jeep shouldn't move if it's chocked, the balancer is keyed onto the crankshaft so there's only one possible way it can fit there (it can't rotate on the crankshaft nose unless the key is sheared off or not installed), the radiator/grille shouldn't move unless the Jeep moves (chocks), and the crankshaft timing... if it moves at all, it'll should be minimal, and counterclockwise (looking rearward from the front bumper). Take it off and put the balancer bolt back on (WITHOUT the washer). When you get the timing cover off, you can use that balancer bolt to tweak the crankshaft back clockwise (with your big wrench or socket) until the timing marks on the sprockets line up again. Then don't disturb it until the new timing set is installed.

It'll be done here in a VERY short while... you'll be pleased with how well it'll go. Quick, too, now that we're to this point.

So TD i appreciate you answering all my questions, but now i have a issue after crushing my index finger removing the small 3 outer bolts i tried losening the big one in the middle and it moved the harmonic balancer and i left the number 1 spark plug out and i can here it making noise like air pushing out, so now i know its not TDC, so what do i do? and how do i get the big bolt off in the middle? can i TDC it the way i did before by having my misses turn the key with my finger in the #1 plug even if the coolant isnt in it? or once i get the big bolt off do what you said and put it back on and time it that way?

 

[TDHofstetter]

Good thought about finding TDC1 with your finger over the spark plug hole. A quicker way is to decide which spark plug wire leads from the distributor to #1 spark plug, pop the cap off the distributor, and watch for the rotor to be pointing at that spot while you or your wife) bump the starter.

Let's rotate the crank back to TDC1 again, just a little clockwise till the ignition timing mark on the balancer lines up with the 0 mark on the outside of the timing cover. Then shift the Transmission into high gear (Transfer Case in 2H or 4H), wheels chocked.

To get that balancer bolt out... try this: Put the fan belt pulley and the fan belt back on. Hang onto the fan belt with one hand while you loosen the balancer bolt with your other hand - your grip will help a LOT to keep the motor from turning. It'll also help a lot if you leave the Jeep in high gear (MANUAL Transmission ONLY!). Like... it'll help HUGE to do that. Try it without the fan belt first, and if it's not quite enough, put the fan belt on to help out.

No worry about the coolant not being in it. It's pretty routine to actually RUN a motor for a minute or so with no coolant at all in it.

Once the balancer's off, the only way to be sure it's at TDC1 will be to get the timing cover off & look at the timing marks on the sprockets. At that point, if you need to turn the crank so they line up again, you'll need to take the Jeep out of gear to do it (balancer bolt back in place, wrench on the bolt).

 

[CoreyYoungCj577]

Good thought about finding TDC1 with your finger over the spark plug hole. A quicker way is to decide which spark plug wire leads from the distributor to #1 spark plug, pop the cap off the distributor, and watch for the rotor to be pointing at that spot while you or your wife) bump the starter.

Let's rotate the crank back to TDC1 again, just a little clockwise till the ignition timing mark on the balancer lines up with the 0 mark on the outside of the timing cover. Then shift the Transmission into high gear (Transfer Case in 2H or 4H), wheels chocked.

To get that balancer bolt out... try this: Put the fan belt pulley and the fan belt back on. Hang onto the fan belt with one hand while you loosen the balancer bolt with your other hand - your grip will help a LOT to keep the motor from turning. It'll also help a lot if you leave the Jeep in high gear (MANUAL Transmission ONLY!). Like... it'll help HUGE to do that. Try it without the fan belt first, and if it's not quite enough, put the fan belt on to help out.

No worry about the coolant not being in it. It's pretty routine to actually RUN a motor for a minute or so with no coolant at all in it.

Once the balancer's off, the only way to be sure it's at TDC1 will be to get the timing cover off & look at the timing marks on the sprockets. At that point, if you need to turn the crank so they line up again, you'll need to take the Jeep out of gear to do it (balancer bolt back in place, wrench on the bolt).

Ok so got the bolt off, a good buddy of mine told me i wouldnt need a puller so you guys got a trick for removing the harmonic balancer? I was looking at the timing marks after i re-did the TDC and i took the cap off and looked to make sure it was pointing somewhere in the area of 1 and it was, but since the timing is off the rotor is pointing in between 1 and 6 which it was before hand. But i checked the timing marks and the engine is TDC and correct me if im wrong but each mark is 2 degree's? well if that is so with the engine at TDC it is two marks up meaning it would be at 4 degree's, and yet again correct me please but doesnt it need to be somewhere at the 8 degree area meaning my timing chain could have jumped two teeth and also meaning it would be 4 marks up on the timing marks instead of 2?

 

[TDHofstetter]

Oh, no, it won't come off without a puller of SOME sort. It may MAYBE be possible to use the fan belt pulley as a puller, but there's a serious risk of screwing it up good, too. Much better to actually find a puller built for the purpose - DO NOT use a three-arm puller with hooks that'll hook around the balancer's rim! That will DESTROY the balancer! It MUST attach to the 3/4 boltholes in the front of the balancer, where the fan belt pulley attached.

As to the ignition timing marks on the outside of the balancer... each tooth is 2 degrees. When the groove on the balancer is lined up to the 0 mark, the crankshaft is exactly at TDC, period. It can't be anyplace else unless the key in the crankshaft is sheared off or missing, or the balancer itself is wrecked... because TDC is a crankshaft position - the "throw" that the piston attaches to (through the connecting rod) is pointing exactly toward the piston.

The 8-degree position you're accustomed to thinking about is for your IGNITION timing; that tells your distributor to make a spark 8 degrees before the crankshaft gets to the TDC position.

So... put the bolt into the end of the crankshaft, put your trusty wrench on it, and turn it to the 0 mark. That's exactly where you want it. It's only a slight turn - don't go all the way around to get there. It's OK to go a couple of degrees past. If you accidentally go a long way past, go all the way around TWICE to get there to get the camshaft back to TDC1 again.

In other words... don't sweat it much. Just turn it to the 0 mark and take off the balancer with an appropriate puller (you can borrow one from AutoZone). When you take the timing cover off, you'll see that the timing marks on your sprockets will be magically lined up is shown in the drawing. They'll be worn, and the chain will be loose, but they'll be right.

When the balancer is at 0, look at the distributor again. It should be pointing a little towards #4 from the #1 wire. If it's pointing between #1 and #5, then let's back up and look good & hard at that after you get the timing set installed. We might need to step the plug wires one step around the distributor cap.

 

[Old Dog]

Ok so got the bolt off, a good buddy of mine told me i wouldnt need a puller so you guys got a trick for removing the harmonic balancer?

I know noone here told you that. Go get a balancer puller.

 

[CoreyYoungCj577]

I know noone here told you that. Go get a balancer puller.

Ok Old Dog went and rented the puller for a whole 8 buck for 3 hours and me being my young self messed around with the harmonic balancer because i thought it didnt have numbers indicating the timing.....Well it does it has 0-4-8-12 stamped right above it and says BTDC on it to so i moved the harmonic balancer around a little before until i cleaned that off and notcied the numbers and i have it as close to 0 as i can get and im about to go tear into this thing and get this hoss running...I HOPE.

But today was a great monday so far because my unemployment situation got settled and i now have a 1100 dollars in my bank and the Misses said if "I" wanted i could go pick up that Renegade , Tim should be happy about this but thats really if i want to or need it but it is a CJ so me being a beginner jeeper and a 4x4 nut I dont NEED it but i really do WANT it.

Tuesday should be even better, but ive come to realize most of my friends i have now a days are over 30 haha My old boss/friend is moving back into town and i have a job interview!

Oh ya the link to the 5 i could get http://billings.craigslist.org/cto/1652398782.html its 1500 to everyone else 800 to me.

 

[TDHofstetter]

Oh yeah baybay that's what I'm talkin' aBOWWT! $800? G'get it g'GET it!

 

[Old Dog]

If you don't go get it...Your not the jeep guy you say you are.

Now get to the garage and get yours running.

 

[CoreyYoungCj577]

Tell me if this chain if off time cause from the looks of it i'd say it was dead on

sorry bout the picture it was taken with my phone the misses digital was dead.

 

[CoreyYoungCj577]

So here is some more news, pulled the timing cover lined up the two timing marks and my Distributor is pointing at the 6 spark plug, so i pulled the old timing set on with the loose chain and put the new set on and its tight as can be and, tomorrow im going to start putting it back together and turn the dizzy 180 degree's. If you can give me any pointer's on the distributor or tell me anything to be careful with please do!

 

[IOPort51]

OK I gotta ask about this one. You were driving the jeep on one day and the next day the dizzy has jumped 180 degrees?? and it hasn't started from that day till now.
I suppose this was the work of space aliens??

 

[Old Dog]

OK I gotta ask about this one. You were driving the jeep on one day and the next day the dizzy has jumped 180 degrees?? and it hasn't started from that day till now.
I suppose this was the work of space aliens??

makes me have to ask...are you sure your on the compression stroke and not the exaust stroke? There is no way it jumped 180*

 

[TDHofstetter]

It was pointing at #6 with the timing chain lined up correctly like that??? Exactly 180 degrees off? Well! That wouldn't run very well!

No need to turn the whole distributor to get it to work. Just move the spark plug wires on the distributor cap. Swap each opposite pair... 1 & 6, 5 & 2, 3 & 4.

Those timing marks in the pic LOOK dead-nuts on, although it'd be better if we could see the centers of both sprockets in that pic just to be totally sure of it. Pretty positive - if it was off, it'd be pretty visible.

Just to doublecheck, since you now have the timing set on, go ahead & rotate the crankshaft until the timing marks line up as shown in that second drawing I posted so you can count the chain teeth between 'em. After you've counted, rotate the crankshaft back around to TDC1 again (timing marks pointing at each other) and put the front of the motor back together.

Hey, ya did it! Wasn't too hard, was it?

 

[TDHofstetter]

If it wasn't on the compression stroke, the cam sprocket couldn't have gone on correctly - it only fits the camshaft one way, and that FORCES compression stroke. Best guess I have is that the plug wires got (replaced and) put back on 180 degrees out of phase.

 

[IOPort51]

If it wasn't on the compression stroke, the cam sprocket couldn't have gone on correctly - it only fits the camshaft one way, and that FORCES compression stroke. Best guess I have is that the plug wires got (replaced and) put back on 180 degrees out of phase.

Pull the distributer and put it where it is supposed to be!! Don"t half axx it!!
Pull the dist up until the rotor will turn and rotate it to just to the clockwise side of the the #1 and drop it back in, you will have to compensate for the twist of the worm gear but it should drop back into the oil pump with no real fight. If not you will have to pull the dizzy all the way out and line the oil pump up with a long flat blade screw driver.

 

[CoreyYoungCj577]

If it wasn't on the compression stroke, the cam sprocket couldn't have gone on correctly - it only fits the camshaft one way, and that FORCES compression stroke. Best guess I have is that the plug wires got (replaced and) put back on 180 degrees out of phase.

Ya everything went on fine and tight so that makes me feel good to know that i was on the compression stroke so then that really means my dizzy is off 180 degree's hell i even looked in the 1# spark plug whole while talking to my uncle to make sure the piston was up and it was, but when i turn the crankshaft so the marks both point at 12 o clock thats when the Dizzy lines up on the #1 spark plug wire

 

[IOPort51]

So way back when you did the tune up you put the wire where it was supposed to be rather than where they needed to be?

 

[CoreyYoungCj577]

So way back when you did the tune up you put the wire where it was supposed to be rather than where they needed to be?

I guess I pulled one wire off and then replaced it and then another so even though i did the wires one at a time with my dad sitting there helping me it still happened?

 

[TDHofstetter]

Pull the distributer and put it where it is supposed to be!! Don"t half axx it!!
Pull the dist up until the rotor will turn and rotate it to just to the clockwise side of the the #1 and drop it back in, you will have to compensate for the twist of the worm gear but it should drop back into the oil pump with no real fight. If not you will have to pull the dizzy all the way out and line the oil pump up with a long flat blade screw driver.

Nothin' at all half-axed about moving the plug wires to get it right... turn the distributor and which way will the vacuum advance point? It SHOULD point toward the front of the motor. You can pretty much pick the position of the distributor according to your whim, long's the wires all go to the right towers on the cap.

 

[IOPort51]

I guess I pulled one wire off and then replaced it and then another so even though i did the wires one at a time with my dad sitting there helping me it still happened?

That would have been the way I would have hoped you would do it, Like I said, space aliens.
2+2=5?? don't add up.