oil on #5 plug-reposted correct forum

[idletinkerer]

1981 CJ5 , AMC 304 V8, Delco Remy HEI, edelbrock performer intake, edelbrock 1404 carb, T-176 4 speed, Dana 300 , twin stick, AMC20 rear two pc stock, dana35 front, running 31" rubber. complete frame off rebuild, using 1979 frame and tub.

When i bought it, it did not have the gas tank mounted as PO was repairing frame, which was worthless. I got it cheap, started it on a cup of gas down the carb.

I got it home and ran a new gas line to a 5 gallon can and it started and ran after sitting for two years, as it warmed up it smoked alot out of the drivers side exhaust. Not on startup, but after it warmed up.

8 months later after a new frame and tub, I got it running again, after putting in new valve seals, - (I changed seals with the air compressor hooked to thru the cylinder, no problems, no leaks of air thru valves, all went smooth.) Still smokes.

Here is what I have confirmed.
compression test dry with engine warmed up, AMC 150 psi across all 8. twice. wide open throttle, all plugs removed. Did not perform a wet test.

I performed a block test, with the blue chem in the tester via the brand new radiator, chem stayed blue, did not change to green or yellow, this rules out a head gasket. No cumbustion gases in radiator system.

No blowby thru oil filler or PCV valve, no suction into the intake manifold via the PCV valve hole, no oil leaks anywhere on motor. no evidence any- where of an oil leak or blowby, there is evidence of a rebuild, ie new freeze pluggs and all gaskets look fresh.

Now, why would #5 spark plug be full of oil, exhaust pipe without cats, has black oil leaking in the seams between first pipe to front of muffler, only on drivers side, whitish/blue exhaust drivers side, water vapor and geyish film on inside of tailpipe.

What should I look for before pullin the head- stuck oil ring or bad valve seat/guide?

All help appreciated
idletinkerer

Read more: http://www.jeep-cj.com/forums/f60/5-spark-plug-oily-21749/#ixzz2wkO6lZkA

 

[Barry2]

If and when you pull the intake manifold, check close to see if the gasket has been leaking on number 5 intake port. I had that problem and it was sucking oil out of the lifter gallery.

 

[IOPort51]

cracked head?

 

[idletinkerer]

Would a cracked head or leaky gasket show up in a vacuum test?

 

[Jimbos76cj]

cracked head should show in your compreassion test. Have you looked into your valve seals? they are cheap and pretty easy to change with some basic hand tools. I would change it to see if it help.

 

[IOPort51]

cracked head should show in your compreassion test. Have you looked into your valve seals? they are cheap and pretty easy to change with some basic hand tools. I would change it to see if it help.

I had a cracked head that only showed up when hot. But I cant argue your logic.

Valve seals sound like a great next step.

 

[Fastatv]

1981 CJ5 , AMC 304 V8, Delco Remy HEI, edelbrock performer intake, edelbrock 1404 carb, T-176 4 speed, Dana 300 , twin stick, AMC20 rear two pc stock, dana35 front, running 31" rubber. complete frame off rebuild, using 1979 frame and tub.

When i bought it, it did not have the gas tank mounted as PO was repairing frame, which was worthless. I got it cheap, started it on a cup of gas down the carb.

I got it home and ran a new gas line to a 5 gallon can and it started and ran after sitting for two years, as it warmed up it smoked alot out of the drivers side exhaust. Not on startup, but after it warmed up.

8 months later after a new frame and tub, I got it running again, after putting in new valve seals, - (I changed seals with the air compressor hooked to thru the cylinder, no problems, no leaks of air thru valves, all went smooth.) Still smokes.

Here is what I have confirmed.
compression test dry with engine warmed up, AMC 150 psi across all 8. twice. wide open throttle, all plugs removed. Did not perform a wet test.

I performed a block test, with the blue chem in the tester via the brand new radiator, chem stayed blue, did not change to green or yellow, this rules out a head gasket. No cumbustion gases in radiator system.

No blowby thru oil filler or PCV valve, no suction into the intake manifold via the PCV valve hole, no oil leaks anywhere on motor. no evidence any- where of an oil leak or blowby, there is evidence of a rebuild, ie new freeze pluggs and all gaskets look fresh.

Now, why would #5 spark plug be full of oil, exhaust pipe without cats, has black oil leaking in the seams between first pipe to front of muffler, only on drivers side, whitish/blue exhaust drivers side, water vapor and geyish film on inside of tailpipe.

What should I look for before pullin the head- stuck oil ring or bad valve seat/guide?

All help appreciated
idletinkerer End of Quote

Hmm, looks like you have covered many bases here:
- U installed new valve guide seals,
- Compression looks good
- PVC is functioning, and no blowby.
Couple of ideas.
- I guess after the jeep sat for so long, its possible for an oil ring to be stuck. U might remove the plug on number five, spray some WD or PB into the cylinder and let it set for a couple of days.
- I have seen something similar on other engines and the culprit was a cracked head in the area of a guide. The compression was good, coolant level didn't drop. The crack allowed a tiny bit of oil get into the cylinder and again, the compression tested good.
- You might think about a leak down test in that particular cylinder. Hope this helps, and I'm sure others will continue to get in here and provide more ideas for you. Rick

 

[IOPort51]

I need to start reading closer.

 

[Jimbos76cj]

I need to start reading closer.

x2..

 

[idletinkerer]

Well, first off thanks for the replies

I pulled the intake and the head in question, had a buddy that does some race car motors stop over, he thought there is oil all through the block. all the valve stems look oily. all thru the intake passages- just wet looking. if oil is getting thru to one cylinder, then would it be pushed thru the entire engine?
The pistons are from Sealed Power, and thru the part number stamped on it, it appears to be .030 allready. Cylinder walls are nice and clean, no scratches in a wear pattern, can really see the cross hatch pattern from the hone job. Really oily. Clean oil cause I just changed it two days ago.

Stay with me here, when I bought this jeep, PO said he got it stuck near his pond. My buddy wondered if he over heated it an the rings are not sealing now?
I want to get a bore gauge and measure the eccentricity and taper to see if it is close to the 3.78" bore. Block has all new freeze plugs, so without knowing the rebuild history, want to believe it was bored properly. No ridge at top of cylinders. Should I pull the oil pan and pop #5 out the top, re-ring and put it back together and try it? Or pull em all?

 

[hdgapeach]

I would think if you got AMC 150 with the compression check on all cylinders, the rings wouldn't be an issue. A wet compression check would have provided you more info on that.

With the compression that good on all cylinders, I was tending to think you have a trashed valve guide on cylinder 5. Do you know if all the valve guides were replaced during the build?

Since you have the head off, pull the valves out of #5 and check the clearance between the valve guides and the stems. You should have a build up on top of the valve when compared to a valve in one of the cylinders next to it if that's truly the issue. You may not have enough run time on the engine for that to show yet, though.

 

[idletinkerer]

I dropped the head off today and talked to Ron at the shop- friend of the family-
He said they magnuflux before they start, that should find a crack if it is there. Hope it ends up being a guide.

On another note, the majority of guys I have talked to have suspected rings. What if the oil scrapper was put in upside down and is pushing oil up? it would help with compression, but not help oil control.

Hope to know in a day or so... will post back verdict on head.

Thanks again for the rudder work- you guys know how to steer better than I on this.

 

[idletinkerer]

Here's an update, Ron at the machine shop had some other heads in front of mine, so I pulled #5 piston today and found the scraper ring to be upside down! also top rings are chrome moly and may not have seated during break in, so out they come, a hone job new rings and bearings. With measure bores when i get the pistons out, just to have a piece of mind. Now does anyone have an extra intake valley heat shield... gonna need one as whoever installed the edelbrock performer intake did not read the directions and install one. This should be my end to oil problems on #5 spark plug- I HOPE!

 

[idletinkerer]

Update:
This took longer than I thought, had two cracks in head, had to get it welded and resurfaced, of course the valve guides turn to junk in the oven heating process, so it got expensive.
All back together, no leaks, only smokes on start up, just a quick puff or two.
I installed new rings and rod bearings, with a quick hone, only have about 10 miles on it, very happy with the sound and like the look of the fresh paint.
Now to get into the steering, as you shift thru the gears, she likes to wander a bit.
Broke a front disc bleeder screw off trying to get the rebuilt brakes bled, so brakes are on this short list as well as seat belts and a roll bar.
Just ordered side mirrors and a liscense plate bracket...
getting closer... weather is helping here in Michigan, no more propane heater in the garage
Before... and now...

 

[idletinkerer]

I was looking for an intake valley heat shield, I was in the Colorado Springs area for work and came across FN Jeep, got what I needed and more, great guys there.
I mounted the shield on the underside of the edelbrock intake, as it was missing. No smoke after the re-build, don't know if it helped, but feel better it is in there.